American Revolution in the 1820s - possible leaders?
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At what point are you able to delay it so much? A lot of the most vigorous voices in congress are about at this point, or just starting out. But you're missing parts of the country that would have been, and a lot of stuff happened in Europe btwn 1776 and 1820. Huge shifts in ideology that would have to be worked in, and may have been different if the American colonies were still a part of the crown. George III just died, so George IV would have to have been something, er, more than he was in OTL. This is fun, though ASBish. What ideas did you have before you posted?
I didn't have a serious POD - it's more of an excercise in "who was who in the Thirteen Colonies" - a subject on which I know next to nothing about.
Say that right around the AR, some ASBs come and cast a spell of loyalty and obedience around the world and the political movements that were brewing are now in stasis until, say, 1816-1820?
Who would be prominent among Americans of the period and who could emerge as leaders? In other words, if the American revolution was contemporary with Bolivar and the French one (all at once!), who'd be the American Bolivars?
Cheers.
Say that right around the AR, some ASBs come and cast a spell of loyalty and obedience around the world and the political movements that were brewing are now in stasis until, say, 1816-1820?
Who would be prominent among Americans of the period and who could emerge as leaders? In other words, if the American revolution was contemporary with Bolivar and the French one (all at once!), who'd be the American Bolivars?
Cheers.
Why would this generation of (OTL Americans) British subjects (J.Q. Adams, Jackson, Van Buren, Calhoun, Webster, among others) suddenly say, "Hay! Our forefathers dropped the ball of revolution in 1776; it's time for us to pick it up and run with it."?
Also, the French Revolution took place in the early 1790's not the 18-teens, unless you're refering to the fall & rise & fall of Napoleon in 1814/15.
Well, the French Revolution got frozen as well. There are in fact no revolutions brewing until the 18-teens.
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Okay, this looks like it might need at least a halfhearted TL attempt:
Say the British managed to lose the 7YW and didn't take Canada in order to bargain for a playing position in Europe - the French Threat kept the colonies loyal.
And, say, the French revolution did happen first. During the Napoleonic era, the British do take Canada and even maybe Louisiana, but the colonies don't get as much control over the new acquisitions as they might have hoped and are still treated as well, colonials.
Cue revolutions in 1820s.
Who could lead them?
L.G. named a few heavies of the time. Plus Winfield Scott had made a name for himself in war of 1812, perhaps he would have done the same fighting for/ against the British somewhere else? If this is going to be ASB, do whatever. Andrew Jackson is a force in American life, use him.
David S Poepoe
Banned
Between the 1770s and 1820s some form of self-government had to have been reached within the American colonies or they most likely would have split from Britain even with the possibility of a hostile - tho mostly empty - French America bordering them.
It entirely likely that a Royal American Army would be raised to keep France busy on the American front while the Royal Navy would sweep the seas and hit them in other areas. As long as the colonies have home rule its unlikely they will rebel and then have to face greater expenses as an independent nation - such as funding and supporting a standing army and navy. You could look at the history of the other 'white colonies' the British had and see how often the cost of defending them fell on British taxpayers.
On the other hand it may seem entirely reasonable to London that British North America be governed from Georgetown (for example) rather than from the Imperial Capital. The expense of settling the new regions will fall directly upon the BNA.
Andrew Jackson instead of George Washington?
Also, how many of OTL AR leaders would still be alive at this time? Would Jefferson, for example, be alive in the 1820's? We need somebody to write that declaration...
Also, how many of OTL AR leaders would still be alive at this time? Would Jefferson, for example, be alive in the 1820's? We need somebody to write that declaration...
General Sir Andrew Jackson just returned home from the Peninsular War where he led His Majesty's Continental Army to great victories. He was knighted in 1816 by the Prince Regent and named Duke of Tennessee in the peerage of North America.
Professor Thomas Jefferson, the noted political philosopher retired from academia in 1818. He spent most of his career teaching at William & Mary and helped establish the University of Virginia, both in Virginia. He was instrumental in the drafting of the 1st Constitution when the British colonies of North America (minus Quebec [the smaller Quebec B-4 the OTL Quebec Act, which didn't come to pass in TTL]).
Now for revolutionaries, how about Aaron Burr?
Professor Thomas Jefferson, the noted political philosopher retired from academia in 1818. He spent most of his career teaching at William & Mary and helped establish the University of Virginia, both in Virginia. He was instrumental in the drafting of the 1st Constitution when the British colonies of North America (minus Quebec [the smaller Quebec B-4 the OTL Quebec Act, which didn't come to pass in TTL]).
Now for revolutionaries, how about Aaron Burr?
Wasn't Burr the guy who tried to make himself a King?
*Psst, Tennessee would likely just be in North Carolina rather than its own colony/province*
*Psst, Tennessee would likely just be in North Carolina rather than its own colony/province*
WHAT??? The "guy" he shot? Alexander Hamilton is not -the guy he shot... He should be amongst the most famous founding fathers in history. He should rank just under Washington and blow that francophile pansy Jefferson out of the water. He should never, NEVER be refered to as that "guy" Burr shot.
That is all...
WHAT??? The "guy" he shot? Alexander Hamilton is not -the guy he shot... He should be amongst the most famous founding fathers in history. He should rank just under Washington and blow that francophile pansy Jefferson out of the water. He should never, NEVER be refered to as that "guy" Burr shot.
I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic and humorous.
I've pondered this. Would the colonies eventually have to settle land claims like OTL? Not to mention I can see colonies like Vandalia, Transylvania, and eventually Frankland/Franklin coming to form along in any event...the frontier colonials of that time were peeved at central government in *general*, it seems, not just London.
I've kinda considered this too. The British didn't want the colonials settling beyond the Appalachians at all, though that would be nearly impossible to enforce really.
I remember reading somewhere that after the British defeated the colonials in the Revolution that western territories would be given under the juristiction of various nobles. Basicly bringing in a hole bunch of British land owners to keep the colonials in check.
Actually, that's just a popular myth. The British were actually fine with westward expansion; it was just that the Colonials and British were running into conflict with the natives as they went west so they temporarily banned moving west until a compromise could be met with the Indians. So what was only to last a few years has become popularized in the American mentality to something that was meant to last forever and stop us at Appalachia.
But that would A) Mean the colonials would have to rebel and B)The British actually carried it out. There were multiple plans for colonies and divisions that never came about, and everything up to the Mississippi was basically claimed by one state or another during the colonial period.
True, however, the Brits at the time didn't put it that way, partly because IIRC the appropriate secretary wanted it permanent, even if that was not the intent of the government.
It would be worth looking at the major families, since the actual personages may well have been butterflied away by no-ACW, or a failed ACW. Some would still be around, in their elder years, but for more youthful leaders you'd need to look, for example, at the FAMILIES of Lee, Pinckney etc
Best Regards
Grey Wolf
Best Regards
Grey Wolf