American Presidents, 1917-2017-onwards

hey, all. ive been working on my ATL again and have devoted some of my attention to the presidential elections of the united states. as well as asking about potential candidates for the future, id also like to try to hammer out some details of previous elections.

the elections stay the same as IOTL until 1917, when Wilson campaigns for re-election. instead, his opponent from 1916, Charles Evans Hughes, is elected. here's what i have so far for the divergent elections and those between them:

Woodrow Wilson (1913 - 1917)
Charles Evans Hughes (1917 - 1921)
Warren G. Harding (1921 - 1923; dies in office)
Calvin Coolidge (1923 - 1929)
Herbert Hoover (1929 - 1933)
Franklin Delano Roosevelt (1933 - 1945; died in office, served three consecutive terms)
Harry S. Truman (1945 - 1953)
Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953 - 1961)
John F. Kennedy (1961 - 1963; assassinated)
Lyndon B. Johnson (1963 - 1965; fails to be re-elected as he did IOTL)
Barry Goldwater (1965 - 1969; though he gains enough support to be elected in '64, he's unable to maintain it during his presidency and therefore is not re-elected)
Richard Nixon (1969 - 1974; resigns over Watergate Scandal)
Gerald Ford (1974 - 1977)
Barry Goldwater (1977 - 1981; second president to serve two non-consecutive terms)
Robert F. Kennedy (1981 - 1989; elected instead of Reagan)
George H. W. Bush (1989 - 1993)
Bill Clinton (1993 - 2001)
George W. Bush (2001 - 2005; fails to be re-elected as he did IOTL)
Edward M. Kennedy (2005 - 2009; dies of brain cancer in-office)
Barack Obama (2009 - 2017; first African-American president)

things to keep in mind concerning the united states ITTL:

  1. a regional war of austria & turkey vs. balkans and russia replaces WW1, which never expands out of eastern europe, and therefore does not involve the US.
  2. the great depression still occurs
  3. WW2 as we know it does not occur, but there's a bunch of regional wars instead, two involving the US: first the Pacific War, in which the US gives economic and some military aid to its ally japan against China and the Dutch East Indies, and the second being a Spanish-American War analogous to the pacific theater (with the spanish empire replacing japan in this case)--the Spanish-American War here gives FDR the support he needs to be re-elected, and eisenhower's famed military command allows him to be elected as IOTL
  4. there is no USSR; the bolshevik uprising was crushed by the tsarist government, but russia later becomes a constitutional monarchy most similar in its form of government to our british UK (britain ITTL has a slightly different government in which the monarch is absolute head of state). thus, there is not as much anti-communist sentiment and no cold war between the US and russia, and no vietnam war, either (korea is a possibility, though it would be japan vs. china directly with the US supporting japan)
  5. kennedy is a bit of a quandry for me. a possibility is that nixon is elected instead, but then what? should nixon be re-elected, or is he assassinated? does kennedy get elected later on and assassinated anyway?
  6. what do you all think is really the plausibility of a goldwater election? i gathered that many republicans felt he was too right-wing to appeal to most republicans. if there's no 'nam, would LBJ be re-elected or would he lack support and lose it to goldwater? and what would be the plausibility of re-election, consecutive or otherwise?
  7. what do you all think is the plausibility of RFK being elected instead of reagan? assuming he isnt assassinated in '68, would he be able to gather enough support to beat reagan? would he succumb to the same fate as his older brother and be assassinated in-office? i currently have him as living to serve two full terms.
  8. i think a major contributing factor to W's election was the iraq war. that war doesnt exist ITTL, so he doesnt get re-elected in 2004, which instead goes to ted kennedy. if anyone's got any ideas about how this could come about or a more plausible candidate (aside from kerry), id be happy to hear them.
  9. i currently have it so that ted kennedy gets re-elected in 2008, but then dies of brain cancer as he did IOTL. since obama was his running mate for the '08 election, he still becomes the first african-american president, just a year later than IOTL. i asked family members what they thought obama's chances for re-election were, and gathered that, as yet, his chances are rather high. with a lack of war in the middle east, i think that boosts his chances even further so he gets re-elected in 2012 and therefore remains president until 2017
  10. i think i pretty-well covered everything about the ATL that concerns the elections, but if anyone needs any clarification for something i may have missed, just say so
after hammering out those details about previous presidents, of current politicians, who do you all think are the most plausible future presidents and for which years until they all die or otherwise quit politics because of their age? after that, i'd just need to fill in the future presidents with fictional ones
 
With butterflies, JFK has a good chance of not being assassinated. Hell, have the Secret Service refuse to ship the car to Dallas unless that bulletproof Plexiglass bubble is firmly bolted on, which it wasn't IOTL. No, Nixon would not be assassinated, and definitely not in the same time and place, they're called butterflies for a reason.

Goldwater winning in '64 under anything resembling OTL circumstances is ASB. Period. His ideology was seen as fringe, or at best a relic of the Gilded Age/Victorian past. On top of that, his public statements made Sarah Palin's seem downright bland.

Nixon: butterflies ensure no Watergate, though an ATL variant is definitely possible.

Ford: see above.

Kennedy: he would run and win in 1976, not 1980 if the only divergence from OTL up to that point was him living. Republicans would want to nominate Reagan to challenge Kennedy's star power.

Bush: would never be elected were he not VP unless he wins the Texas Senate seat in 1964 or 1970.

Ted Kennedy: would not run for President if his brother lived.

Biggest flaw: failing to account for any sort of butterflies. Fix that first.
 
i know, butterflies seem to be one of the things i tend to forget :rolleyes: thanks for your input so far. i think i'll have JFK's presidency be identical to it IOTL, but have reagan take over from RFK.

maybe ill just switch goldwater's presidency back to what it is OTL. when i first heard of the guy, i thought he would be an interesting president, and only recently learned how far to the right he really was.

what would you suggest as an analogue to watergate? keep in mind, nixon still opens diplomacy with china ITTL, and what specifically would you suggest for ford?

any other ideas what i could do to solve some of the butterfly problems short of simply throwing in some butterfly nets?

EDIT: here's the new election setup. changes have been bolded:

Woodrow Wilson (1913 - 1917)
Charles Evans Hughes (1917 - 1921)
Warren G. Harding (1921 - 1923; dies in office)
Calvin Coolidge (1923 - 1929)
Herbert Hoover (1929 - 1933)
Franklin Delano Roosevelt (1933 - 1945; died in office, served three consecutive terms)
Harry S. Truman (1945 - 1953)
Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953 - 1961)
John F. Kennedy (1961 - 1963; assassinated)
Lyndon B. Johnson (1963 - 1969; changed to re-election)
Richard Nixon (1969 - 1974; resigns over a scandal analogous to OTL watergate)

Gerald Ford (1974 - 1977)
Robert F. Kennedy (1981 - 1985; elected instead of Reagan, but loses re-election, subsequently assassinated)
Ronald Reagan (1985 - 1993; OTL bush sr's presidency is replaced by reagan's second term)
Bill Clinton (1993 - 2001)
Al Gore (2001 - 2005; near impeachment over election controversy :)p) causes him to lose popular support and fail to be re-elected)
Edward M. Kennedy (2005 - 2009; dies of brain cancer in-office)
Barack Obama (2009 - 2017; first African-American president)
 
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Why does Hughes only get one term?

This might make sense if WW1 still happened, in which case the backlash against wartime sacrifices might well unseat him, but of course you have eliminated WW1, so there's no reason he shouldn't win again.

Also, the only reason for the Republicans to drop him would be if a stronger candidate was needed, which Harding probably wouldn't be. Logically, I'd have thought you get either a re-elected Hughes or a Democrat.
 
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I assume that had Hughes won in 1916 a conservative Democrat would have beaten him in 1920 because of bitterness of about the war (which would appear to be all the Republican's fault)
 
tbph, i hadnt put much thought into hughes; at the moment, he's more in there to fill in for wilson's OTL second term (though their policies would, of course, be very different). ill have to look back into that sometime.
 
tbph, i hadnt put much thought into hughes; at the moment, he's more in there to fill in for wilson's OTL second term (though their policies would, of course, be very different). ill have to look back into that sometime.


Actually the difference might not be that great. OTL, almost all the Progressive legislation came in Wilson's first term, after that it was all war measures. And the drastic fall-off of Democratic strength in Congress means that probably little would have got through even had the war not intervened.
 
No Cold War might mean Eisenhower not getting elected; if its a Pacific War only then perhaps a President Nimitz instead?

The Great Depression probably still means a war between Spain and possibly Britain, France and Germany (which undergoes several governments and a near civil war in the early Thirties, as does France.)

Russia has a war with Japan in the 1950s (somewhat analogous to the Korean War in OTL) over old disputes dating back to the Russo-Japanese war.

The Chinese Revolution fails and Mao is exiled to Taiwan, which becomes comparable to North Korea in OTL.

Japan claims Manchuria after winning the war (with help from its American allies.)

Cuba becomes an American territory as a result of the Second Spanish-American War. America also gains Bermuda, Haiti, and Jamaica a la the Philippines and Guam OTL as postwar gifts from its British allies and concessions from the defeated French.) The British get Guiana.

Hawaii doesn't become a state until the 1970s.

Second Spanish American War: 1937-1941
Pacific Asian War: 1939-1943

As a result of these earlier wars, FDR is ironically not reelected due to "Roosevelt fatigue". Dewey wins in 1944.

Postwar Presidents:

Thomas Dewey (1945-1949)
Harry S. Truman (1949-1953)
Chester Nimitz (1953-1961)
John F Kennedy (1961-63)
Lyndon Johnson (1964-1973) Dies just days after his second term ends
Richard M Nixon (1973-1977) (Watergate remains a "Minor" scandal until after Nixon leaves office; Agnew still resigns as in OTL)
James E. Carter (1977-1981)
George H.W. Bush (1981-1989)
Howard Baker Jr. (1989-1993)
Albert S. Gore, Jr. (1993-2001)
George W. Bush (2001-2005)
John Forbes Kerry (2005-2009)
Mitt Romney (2009-)
 
EDIT: here's the new election setup. changes have been bolded:

Woodrow Wilson (1913 - 1917)
Charles Evans Hughes (1917 - 1921)
Warren G. Harding (1921 - 1923; dies in office)
Calvin Coolidge (1923 - 1929)
Herbert Hoover (1929 - 1933)
Franklin Delano Roosevelt (1933 - 1945; died in office, served three consecutive terms)
Harry S. Truman (1945 - 1953)
Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953 - 1961)
John F. Kennedy (1961 - 1963; assassinated)
Lyndon B. Johnson (1963 - 1969; changed to re-election)
Richard Nixon (1969 - 1974; resigns over a scandal analogous to OTL watergate)
Gerald Ford (1974 - 1977)
Robert F. Kennedy (1981 - 1985; elected instead of Reagan, but loses re-election, subsequently assassinated)
Ronald Reagan (1985 - 1993; OTL bush sr's presidency is replaced by reagan's second term)
Bill Clinton (1993 - 2001)
Al Gore (2001 - 2005; near impeachment over election controversy :)p) causes him to lose popular support and fail to be re-elected)
Edward M. Kennedy (2005 - 2009; dies of brain cancer in-office)
Barack Obama (2009 - 2017; first African-American president)

Interesting. A few questions.
1. Is Ford the VP from the get go, or does Agnew resign ITTL as well?
2. Who is president between Ford and RFK, you left a gap?
3. Why does EMK run against Gore, a member of his own party? Does Gore decline to run again?

Also, I don't think Ted runs if Bobby lives.
 
Actually the difference might not be that great. OTL, almost all the Progressive legislation came in Wilson's first term, after that it was all war measures. And the drastic fall-off of Democratic strength in Congress means that probably little would have got through even had the war not intervened.
so does that mean wilson would be re-elected? since there's no WWI, would wilson focus on his first-term policies again?

No Cold War might mean Eisenhower not getting elected; if its a Pacific War only then perhaps a President Nimitz instead?
thats certainly a possibility. the idea i had had with the wars were basically that the Pacific War is more of a japanese expansionist campaign that the US decides to help in (which begins when japan started invading china in the 30s, as IOTL). the Third Spanish-American War (there's actually two preceding this, the first analogous to the mexican-american war which results in an independent aztec state allied to the US and the second being virtually the same as the historical one) is basically the events of the pacific theater against japan from OTL transplanted to the caribbean and south america, which is wherethe bulk of spain's empire is ITTL. i was also thinking of essentially transplanting some basic events of the north africa campaign to take place in continental south america, in which eisenhower and patton become famous for their military expertise and eisenhower is eventually elected. but yknow, nimitz sounds pretty cool, too :) ill have to consider that

The Great Depression probably still means a war between Spain and possibly Britain, France and Germany (which undergoes several governments and a near civil war in the early Thirties, as does France.)
thats entirely possible; i WAS planning for the depression to cause a few civil wars and a failed rise of the nazis merely as a german nationalist group (ITTL, the german states were defeated and eventually annexed by france [https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=168037]) which is what prompts many other countries to join the League of Nations (which begins as it did IOTL without the US; https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=169106) or form their own supranational unions (such as the arab league)

Russia has a war with Japan in the 1950s (somewhat analogous to the Korean War in OTL) over old disputes dating back to the Russo-Japanese war.
sounds interesting. what do you think is the plausibility of this being between china and japan, though? ITTL, china corrals most other east-asian nations into one supranational union and would presumably have korea as well, but loses them to japan during the aforementioned pacific war. i suppose russia could help china if they ask

The Chinese Revolution fails and Mao is exiled to Taiwan, which becomes comparable to North Korea in OTL.
i was planning for mao's revolution to fail anyway :p taiwan is japanese territory here, so i guess that means mao wont have much time left if he tries to turn taiwan into north korea

Cuba becomes an American territory as a result of the Second Spanish-American War. America also gains Bermuda, Haiti, and Jamaica a la the Philippines and Guam OTL as postwar gifts from its British allies and concessions from the defeated French.) The British get Guiana.
this id actually like to avoid. its also kind of of importance later in the TL that spain keeps the caribbean (the caribbean becomes a major theater of the first world war in 2032)

Hawaii doesn't become a state until the 1970s.
this is entirely a possibility, doesnt conflict with anything else ive been working on :)

Thomas Dewey (1945-1949)
Harry S. Truman (1949-1953)
Chester Nimitz (1953-1961)
John F Kennedy (1961-63)
Lyndon Johnson (1964-1973) Dies just days after his second term ends
Richard M Nixon (1973-1977) (Watergate remains a "Minor" scandal until after Nixon leaves office; Agnew still resigns as in OTL)
James E. Carter (1977-1981)
George H.W. Bush (1981-1989)
Howard Baker Jr. (1989-1993)
Albert S. Gore, Jr. (1993-2001)
George W. Bush (2001-2005)
John Forbes Kerry (2005-2009)
Mitt Romney (2009-)
ill have to work on this, see what can really work

Interesting. A few questions.
1. Is Ford the VP from the get go, or does Agnew resign ITTL as well?
2. Who is president between Ford and RFK, you left a gap?
3. Why does EMK run against Gore, a member of his own party? Does Gore decline to run again?

Also, I don't think Ted runs if Bobby lives.
tbph, i havent put much thought into OTL presidents and wasnt even aware that agnew resigned OTL. ill have to look into that, and maybe we could get president agnew instead of president ford?

a gap? really? lemme see...ah! i did! my bad there :eek: ill look into that and see if i cant fix it. any suggestions?

my plan with gore was that he gets elected in 2000, but in 2003, theres some controversy over his election and evidence comes to light that the ballots were fixed in his favor (the number of votes that gore and bush each get are the opposite of OTL; gore gets 271 to bush's 266. he faces impeachment charges but is found not guilty, but the damage is done and he cant get enough support in the primaries when he runs for re-election, and EMK gets elected instead (the republican candidate probably being W, unless thats implausible)

as for EMK and RFK, i was planning, on suggestion, to have RFK run when listed here, but he fails to get re-elected even though he remains the democratic candidate, instead losing out to reagan who takes that term and is then re-elected to the OTL bush sr term (perhaps bush sr could be his VP during that term?). after that, clinton gets elected and his terms go as IOTL, scandal and all, and then gore runs in 2000


EDIT: i decided to, at least for the time being, fill in that gap with the OTL president of that term, jimmy carter. im thinking that maybe an attempted assassination by sirhan sirhan (which RFK manages to survive) helps to get him support to be elected, but then he loses to reagan in '84 and is subsequently assassinated, perhaps even while he's still in office after losing the election or very shortly after he leaves office
 
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any other ideas? im pretty-well satisfied with the presidential listing up to the present-day. now, i'd like to go on to the future presidents, starting with the 2016 election. keep in mind, there hasnt been a republican president ITTL since reagan left office in 1993:

Bill Clinton (1993 - 2001); nearly impeached over Lewinsky scandal
Al Gore (2001 - 2005); nearly impeached over election controversy, lost 2004 primaries to EMK
Ted Kennedy (2005 - 2009); re-elected in '08, but dies of brain cancer in 2009 and succeeded by VP obama
Barack Obama (2009 - 2017); first african-american POTUS


based on previous suggestions, i cant help but think Mitt Romney should be the president elected in 2016. after a quarter of a century of democratic presidents, i think a republican presidency is inevitable. again, keep in mind that there was no 9/11 and middle eastern war ITTL, so i think that would take some steam out of any potential tea party-like movement. there's still controversy over obama's nationality, but thats about it (as there's no cold war and USSR, socialism as a whole is a bit more accepted, though capitalists, of course, vehemently object to it; that would more than likely take some more steam out of a tea party-like movement except by the staunch capitalists and most radical members, which would probably make them lose a bit of popular support)


also, any ideas for a watergate analogue? given the setting, what do you all think is most likely? the default is that it will simply stay as watergate
 
DPFAR: anything? at all?

i also still want to write up the future presidents, too.

i made one small edit to the current listing of presidents: Charles Evans Hughes gets a second term instead of Warren G. Harding getting his one term, but Calvin Coolidge is legitimately elected following Hughes' departure from office. guesses at plausibility, anyone?


ive also decided to look into OTL potential presidential candidates for the 2012 election to try to get ideas for future presidents ITTL. remember that ive already written up that obama succeeds EMK as president in 2009 and is then re-elected in 2012, so these candidates are for the 2016 election. ive decided to bold candidates of interest.

Republican

  • Fred Karger
  • Joe Arpaio
  • Haley Barbour
  • John Bolton
  • Scott Brown
  • Herman Cain
  • John Cornyn
  • Mitch Daniels
  • Newt Gingrich
  • Rudy Giuliani
  • Judd Gregg
  • Mike Huckabee
  • Gary E. Johnson
  • Bob McDonnell
  • Sarah Palin
  • Georg Pataki
  • Ron Paul
  • Tim Pawlenty
  • Mike Pence
  • Mitt Romney
  • Marco Rubio
  • Paul Ryan
  • Rick Santorum
  • John Thune
  • Donald Trump
Democratic

  • Mike Gravel
  • Alan Grayson
  • Alvin Green
  • Hilary Clinton
some may be wondering why i didnt list sarah palin as a candidate of interest. well, for one, i dont like her and wouldnt be caught dead giving her the dignity of a presidency even in a work of fiction. for another, i dont think she'd have as much credibility in this world since there's no 9/11. she may get a senate seat or vice-presidency, but that'd be about it ITTL.

thoughts, anyone?
 
A POD in the early 20th century still sees Barack Obama elected in 2009? Unless you are one of those conspiracy nutters, who believe he was bred in a vat in Kenya by Bill Ayers and the Weathermen, I don't see how you think this could happen.

After the 1940s, the world and therefore politics will be unrecognizable. Account for that. Don't build in grand leaps- go step by step.
 
no, im not one of those "birther" nuts :p the premise for obama being president from 2009 to 2017 is that he's ted kennedy's vice president when he runs for re-election in 2008, but then ted dies of brain cancer (as he did OTL) so obama succeeds him.

which of my leaps and bounds do you think i should shrink back down to hops and skips?


thanks for your reply all the same :)
 
The entire thing. Listen, after the 40s, your presidential list should be unrecognizable and certainly shouldn't include someone born in the 60s.
 
Alternate American Presidents 1917-2017

28. Woodrow Wilson (Democrat): 1913-1917
29. Charles Evans Hughes (Republican: 1917-1925
30. Calvin Coolidge (Republican): 1925-1931*
31. Charles Dawes (Republican): 1931-1933
32. Franklin Roosevelt (Democrat): 1933-1945*
33. Harry Truman (Democrat): 1945-1949
34. Thomas Dewey (Republican): 1949-1953
35. Adlai Stevenson II: (Democrat) 1953-1961
36. Lyndon Johnson (Democrat): 1961-1969
37. Nelson Rockefeller (Republican): 1969-1977
38. Richard Nixon (Republican): 1977-1981
39. Henry "Scoop" Jackson (Democrat): 1981-1983*
40. Walter Mondale (Democrat): 1983-1993
41. George H.W. Bush (Republican): 1993-2001
42. Jack Kemp (Republican): 2001-2005
43. Al Gore (Democrat): 2005-2009
44. John "Jeb" Bush (Republican): 2009-2013
45. Hillary Rodham (Democrat): 2013-2021
46. Barack Obama (Democrat): 2021-?

*= Died in Office
 
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