American Magic: A Different History of Disney

[PunMaster]

@OldNavy1988
If Dark Empire is anything like the one from OTL, I'm guessing it focuses on a revived Vader as the main villain?

 

[HonestAbe1809]

@OldNavy1988
If Dark Empire is anything like the one from OTL, I'm guessing it focuses on a revived Vader as the main villain?

I'd say that Keith David could pull off being a younger version of James Earle Jones's Darth Vader. And it'd be the opportunity to have his unmasked, unscarred face show that, in this universe, Darth Vader is an African American. Try to tell me that it wouldn't be amazing to have one of the biggest, baddest, animated villains be a minority. Plus it'd be a way to make up for Doctor Facilier being both almost twenty years in the future and butterflied away to boot.

 

[PunMaster]

I'd say that Keith David could pull off being a younger version of James Earle Jones's Darth Vader. And it'd be the opportunity to have his unmasked, unscarred face show that, in this universe, Darth Vader is an African American. Try to tell me that it wouldn't be amazing to have one of the biggest, baddest, animated villains be a minority. Plus it'd be a way to make up for Doctor Facilier being both almost twenty years in the future and butterflied away to boot.

That does sound good, and Keith David would be great. Part of me wants him to do the Facilier voice, just because that voice may be one of my favorite villainous voices of all time.

 

[HonestAbe1809]

That does sound good, and Keith David would be great. Part of me wants him to do the Facilier voice, just because that voice may be one of my favorite villainous voices of all time.

It just came to me that, since TTL's Darth is more like a version of OTL's Palpatine he'd be a bit more Laughably Evil than OTL's serious Vader. So David's Facilier voice would likely do well as Clone Vader.

Does TTL Vader look exactly like OTL Vader or does he look somewhat different? Different film, different design. And there's no limit to what you can do in animation. Or, if original Vader looked like OTL, it could be that Clone Vader decides to try something new as a "new" man. Want me to show some redesigns I've found online for Vader?

 

[PunMaster]

It just came to me that, since TTL's Darth is more like a version of OTL's Palpatine he'd be a bit more Laughably Evil than OTL's serious Vader. So David's Facilier voice would likely do well as Clone Vader.

Does TTL Vader look exactly like OTL Vader or does he look somewhat different? Different film, different design. And there's no limit to what you can do in animation. Or, if original Vader looked like OTL, it could be that Clone Vader decides to try something new as a "new" man. Want me to show some redesigns I've found online for Vader?

I'd imagine Vader was just as serious in the Original Trilogy as he was in OTL, but he'd probably be much hammier in Dark Empire, to reflect that he has his youth again, plus going by OTL's Dark Empire dying and coming back will have made him much stronger, so he'd be Drunk on the Dark Side as well, much like OTL Sheev.

Old Navy showed off Vader’s design a while ago, on page 112, I believe. But yeah, I imagine Vader will want a new look, to show that he's been reborn. He'd probably hold some sentimental feelings about the old look, though, so he might not drastically change it. Sure, I'd be happy to see what designs you've found.

 

[HonestAbe1809]

I'd imagine Vader was just as serious in the Original Trilogy as he was in OTL, but he'd probably be much hammier in Dark Empire, to reflect that he has his youth again, plus going by OTL's Dark Empire dying and coming back will have made him much stronger, so he'd be Drunk on the Dark Side as well, much like OTL Sheev.

Old Navy showed off Vader’s design a while ago, on page 112, I believe. But yeah, I imagine Vader will want a new look, to show that he's been reborn. He'd probably hold some sentimental feelings about the old look, though, so he might not drastically change it. Sure, I'd be happy to see what designs you've found.

So a mostly serious "Old" Vader and a hammier "Clone" Vader? I say "mostly serious" because OldNavy's descriptions of Vader taking the Emperor's throne imply that he let out a little bit of his inner ham.

Here's a number of designs regarding a redesign of Vader's costume. The last one is a fantasy version for if introducing sci-fi elements would be too ridiculous for Once Upon A Time. I admit that some of them are kind of out there but I enjoyed them nonetheless.

 

[PunMaster]

So a mostly serious "Old" Vader and a hammier "Clone" Vader? I say "mostly serious" because OldNavy's descriptions of Vader taking the Emperor's throne imply that he let out a little bit of his inner ham.

Here's a number of designs regarding a redesign of Vader's costume. The last one is a fantasy version for if introducing sci-fi elements would be too ridiculous for Once Upon A Time. I admit that some of them are kind of out there but I enjoyed them nonetheless.

View attachment 348871 View attachment 348867View attachment 348870 View attachment 348868View attachment 348872 View attachment 348874 View attachment 348875

Yeah, pretty much. The idea is that he grew more serious with age and the stress of running an empire from the shadows. In Dark Empire, with his youth restored and his power increased, Vader will have regained that fire, and he'll be moving to take the Empire back. Or at least, that's what I think should happen, it's up to Old Navy.

Those are all really cool designs! I think the 4th and 5th designs should be for other main villains (the 4th for Shadow of the Titan and the 5th for Rise of the Sith), and the 2nd design seems best for Reborn/Clone Vader, though that 'chin' part of the suit I think should be taken out. That fantasy one should work perfectly for Once Upon A Time Vader. Perhaps that version of him is a fantasy counterpart, rather then using the sci-fi origin? I mean, since everyone else is fantasy, perhaps in OUAT, there is a fantasy version of the Star Wars story, with the Empire being the largest kingdom in the old world.

 

[HonestAbe1809]

Yeah, pretty much. The idea is that he grew more serious with age and the stress of running an empire from the shadows. In Dark Empire, with his youth restored and his power increased, Vader will have regained that fire, and he'll be moving to take the Empire back. Or at least, that's what I think should happen, it's up to Old Navy.

Those are all really cool designs! I think the 4th and 5th designs should be for other main villains (the 4th for Shadow of the Titan and the 5th for Rise of the Sith), and the 2nd design seems best for Reborn/Clone Vader, though that 'chin' part of the suit I think should be taken out. That fantasy one should work perfectly for Once Upon A Time Vader. Perhaps that version of him is a fantasy counterpart, rather then using the sci-fi origin? I mean, since everyone else is fantasy, perhaps in OUAT, there is a fantasy version of the Star Wars story, with the Empire being the largest kingdom in the old world.

So he'd be returned to a state of youthful passion as well as the intoxication of returning at the prime of his power. It definitely sounds like a role Keith David could play with panache.

Is Shadow of the Titan in the past or the present? Is it a prequel or a sequel. Because if it's a prequel Design #4 could be either Darth Plagueis or Darth Sidious. Who were recast in this version of Star Wars as Sith Lords who were contemporaries of Yoda before falling to the Dark Side. Yoda would've thought that he killed them before but one of them survived. An ancient Sith Lord like that would be a big deal, naturally. Design #5 could be a Sith who was responsible for the assassination of the royal family. You know what'd be interesting? If "Sith Lord" was the equivalent of "Jedi Knight" for the Sith. Meaning that a smaller group of people (namely Sidious, Plaugueis, and Vader) are some higher rank. Like "Sith Archon" or something similar.

The idea of the "unmasked" design is that Clone!Vader, in his youthful arrogance, had decided to forgo a helmet. "Why cover this handsome face?" is the underlying reason behind it. So in this version, he'd be unscarred and with a full head of hair like clone Palpatine in OTL. And naturally, since he'd be forgoing the helmet completely, there'd be no "chin" like in that design.

 

[PunMaster]

So he'd be returned to a state of youthful passion as well as the intoxication of returning at the prime of his power. It definitely sounds like a role Keith David could play with panache.

Is Shadow of the Titan in the past or the present? Is it a prequel or a sequel. Because if it's a prequel Design #4 could be either Darth Plagueis or Darth Sidious. Who were recast in this version of Star Wars as Sith Lords who were contemporaries of Yoda before falling to the Dark Side. Yoda would've thought that he killed them before but one of them survived. An ancient Sith Lord like that would be a big deal, naturally. Design #5 could be a Sith who was responsible for the assassination of the royal family. You know what'd be interesting? If "Sith Lord" was the equivalent of "Jedi Knight" for the Sith. Meaning that a smaller group of people (namely Sidious, Plaugueis, and Vader) are some higher rank. Like "Sith Archon" or something similar.

The idea of the "unmasked" design is that Clone!Vader, in his youthful arrogance, had decided to forgo a helmet. "Why cover this handsome face?" is the underlying reason behind it. So in this version, he'd be unscarred and with a full head of hair like clone Palpatine in OTL. And naturally, since he'd be forgoing the helmet completely, there'd be no "chin" like in that design.

Pretty much, yeah. I'm kind of jealous of the other timeline, I'd love to see Keith David play Reborn Vader.

Shadow of the Titan is set after either A New Hope or Return of the Jedi, depending on what Old Navy wants. The basic idea is that survivors of Alderaan are trying to restore their world, while the Sith hunt them down. They plan to do this using either the Titan from OTL's Titan A.E. or an expy of it. That being said, I agree that that design would work better for Plagueis or Sidious. Maybe design 3 would be better for that? Also, yeah, I like the assassin idea. My thoughts for the Rise of the Sith, which is Star Wars Anastasia with Leia as the protagonist, is that the Inquisition (basically Vader's secret police) are the main villains. That design could work for the leader of the Inquisition, the one that brought about the downfall of the royal family on Vader's orders. Hmm, that's an interesting idea, actually. My original thought was that the equivalents to Jedi Knights would be called Black Knights, with Sith Lords being Jedi Master equivalents (and Vader being the Dark Lord of the Sith, something beyond Sith Lord), but Sith Archon is a good title as well, given that it translates to Ruler.

Yeah, that should work. From Vader's point of view, he's already conquered death itself. What would he have to fear?

 

[HonestAbe1809]

Pretty much, yeah. I'm kind of jealous of the other timeline, I'd love to see Keith David play Reborn Vader.

Shadow of the Titan is set after either A New Hope or Return of the Jedi, depending on what Old Navy wants. The basic idea is that survivors of Alderaan are trying to restore their world, while the Sith hunt them down. They plan to do this using either the Titan from OTL's Titan A.E. or an expy of it. That being said, I agree that that design would work better for Plagueis or Sidious. Maybe design 3 would be better for that? Also, yeah, I like the assassin idea. My thoughts for the Rise of the Sith, which is Star Wars Anastasia with Leia as the protagonist, is that the Inquisition (basically Vader's secret police) are the main villains. That design could work for the leader of the Inquisition, the one that brought about the downfall of the royal family on Vader's orders. Hmm, that's an interesting idea, actually. My original thought was that the equivalents to Jedi Knights would be called Black Knights, with Sith Lords being Jedi Master equivalents (and Vader being the Dark Lord of the Sith, something beyond Sith Lord), but Sith Archon is a good title as well, given that it translates to Ruler.

Yeah, that should work. From Vader's point of view, he's already conquered death itself. What would he have to fear?

I do believe that Design 4 works better for the centuries-old Sith than Design 3. Maybe that'd work as the armor of the footsoldiers of the Sith Inquisition. The head inquisitor would be called Darth Tyranus and he'd be a Sith Lord under Vader's command. He's the direct enforcer of Vader's will. He'd be the Rasputin-Expy of his Star Wars Anastasia. The structure of the Sith would go Black Knights, who are the footsoldiers, Sith Lords who rule above them, and the incredibly rare Sith Archon. Only one Sith Archon had arisen. Namely Vader himself. Even Vader's Sith Master Siddius hadn't attained that level of power. So it'd be the equivalent of Yoda being the one true Jedi Master.

Exactly my point. His overconfidence, like OTL Palpatine, is his weakness.

 

[PunMaster]

I do believe that Design 4 works better for the centuries-old Sith than Design 3. Maybe that'd work as the armor of the footsoldiers of the Sith Inquisition. The head inquisitor would be called Darth Tyranus and he'd be a Sith Lord under Vader's command. He's the direct enforcer of Vader's will. He'd be the Rasputin-Expy of his Star Wars Anastasia. The structure of the Sith would go Black Knights, who are the footsoldiers, Sith Lords who rule above them, and the incredibly rare Sith Archon. Only one Sith Archon had arisen. Namely Vader himself. Even Vader's Sith Master Siddius hadn't attained that level of power. So it'd be the equivalent of Yoda being the one true Jedi Master.

Exactly my point. His overconfidence, like OTL Palpatine, is his weakness.

Yeah, agreed. Design 4 will be the look Sidious has, with Design 3 working for the Sith Inquisitors. Darth Tyranus works, since we're not going to have a Count Dooku here, and him serving as Vader's chief enforcer would work as well. And that structure sounds good to me.

Ha, pride comes before the fall, eh? I suppose that will be something for Morningstar and Vader to relate over in TTL's Kingdom Hearts version.

As for Shadow of the Titan, thinking on it there's another Sith we could use if he doesn't appear in Phantom Menace...

 

[OldNavy1988]

@HonestAbe1809 These are the Vader designs I like, especially the one with the clear dome on top.

 

[PunMaster]

@HonestAbe1809 These are the Vader designs I like, especially the one with the clear dome on top.

Maybe the design with the clear dome on top is the original suit Vader uses in the prequel trilogy before taking on the iconic suit we all know, fear, and love?

 

[HonestAbe1809]

Yeah, agreed. Design 4 will be the look Sidious has, with Design 3 working for the Sith Inquisitors. Darth Tyranus works, since we're not going to have a Count Dooku here, and him serving as Vader's chief enforcer would work as well. And that structure sounds good to me.

Ha, pride comes before the fall, eh? I suppose that will be something for Morningstar and Vader to relate over in TTL's Kingdom Hearts version.

As for Shadow of the Titan, thinking on it there's another Sith we could use if he doesn't appear in Phantom Menace...

Especially with Lee busy for the foreseeable future as Van Helsing in the Universal Monsterverse.

Is that a Darth Maul who was already chopped in half by the time he comes on the scene? I can see the mechanical parts to him.

 

[OldNavy1988]

Maybe the design with the clear dome on top is the original suit Vader uses in the prequel trilogy before taking on the iconic suit we all know, fear, and love?

Pretty much yeah. Maybe the dome gets cracked open and he upgrades to the iconic look.

Here's a photo of a younger James Earl Jones the animators could use to design the younger Vader...

Especially with Lee busy for the foreseeable future as Van Helsing in the Universal Monsterverse.

Is that a Darth Maul who was already chopped in half by the time he comes on the scene? I can see the mechanical parts to him.

Would Peter Serafinowicz still be a good Maul voice, or should we replace him?

 

[OldNavy1988]

1. Either one of the Star Wars films or the Treasure Island film could be in the '97 slot for Disney. Personally, I like Rise of the Sith for that slot since that's OTL Anastasia's release date.
2. The Princess and the Goblin should be 1991.
3. Polar Express should be in '95. That's the ten-year anniversary of the book's release.
4. Why Five Weeks in a Balloon when 20,000 Leagues is so much more well known? And when you've already got Around the World in 80 Days. An animated adaptation of From Earth To The Moon would be as much an adaptation of the famous silent film as the book itself. The movies could be annual releases from 1990/1991 onwards. They'd be distributed by Paramount.
5. Three Musketeers should be '98.
6. The Iron Giant should be Turner.
7. The Oz Project could either be an adaptation of the second book to follow the MGM film or an adaptation of the first book to make it clear that it's Turner's unique version of the Oz Universe. Though undoubtedly it'd still share similarities with the MGM live-action film for recognition's sake.
8. The "Best of Both Worlds" film should either be released in 1990 or 1992 to avoid stepping on IV's toes. It's as much an advertisement for the show as the show is for the movie.
9. Bridge To Terrabithia sounds like it'd work as a Ruby-Spears production. Same thing with Tarzan.
10. Maybe Chronicles of Narnia is what Paramount Animation is doing in between Star Trek projects.
11. The Ghibli films should have a year (give or take) tacked on to their Japanese release date for proper dubbing. Except for the films that were released prior to the Ghibli-Amblimation deal. Like Totoro.

Didn't we talk about making Waterworld in animation?

 

[HonestAbe1809]

Pretty much yeah. Maybe the dome gets cracked open and he upgrades to the iconic look.

Here's a photo of a younger James Earl Jones the animators could use to design the younger Vader...

Would Peter Serafinowicz still be a good Maul voice, or should we replace him?

The first one you liked would be the design that the reborn younger Darth Vader would be using. Though he'd naturally be looking more natural than the Vader in the picture. And he'd be without the "chin" of the suit since his youthful arrogance had caused him to forgo the helmet altogether.

Combine that younger James Earle Jones with Keith David and you've got younger Darth Vader.

The fifth design I provided is the Sith Chief Inquisitor Darth Tyranus. He'd be serving as the Rasputin in our Star Wars Anastasia/Rise of the Sith.

Didn't we talk about making Waterworld in animation?

I had forgotten about it. It'd be a good way to shave off the massive costs without needing on-location filming.

Anything to say about what I wrote?

 

[jennysnooper87]

Next update:

Stay tuned!

The Little Mermaid! My second favorite Disney movie. Though Beauty and the Beast is still my favorite because I can relate to Belle.

 

[PunMaster]

Especially with Lee busy for the foreseeable future as Van Helsing in the Universal Monsterverse.

Is that a Darth Maul who was already chopped in half by the time he comes on the scene? I can see the mechanical parts to him.

Definitely. Ah, that reminds me, I've come to a decision on Monster Detectives, I think I'm going to be keeping it as a Disney movie, for a few reasons (one being that the tone fits more with Disney then the Monster-verse, another being that I would like to see the cast in Disney stuff in the future, and the third being I don't want to have to rewrite the story I already have).

Yep, I figure he'd be a veteran of Vader's take over. He was injured during the coup, and Vader saved his life, turning him into a cyborg. Because of this and the loyalty he already had before his injury, he is fanatically loyal to Vader, and wants to exterminate the Alderaanian survivors for daring to not only survive his master's judgement, but to also try to restore their world.

Pretty much yeah. Maybe the dome gets cracked open and he upgrades to the iconic look.

Here's a photo of a younger James Earl Jones the animators could use to design the younger Vader...

Would Peter Serafinowicz still be a good Maul voice, or should we replace him?

That sounds good to me.

I agree with Honest Abe, combine that with Keith David's look and you should have a good look for younger Vader.

He'd work great still, in my opinion. He has a very fitting voice for the role.

 

[OldNavy1988]

1. Either one of the Star Wars films or the Treasure Island film could be in the '97 slot for Disney. Personally, I like Rise of the Sith for that slot since that's OTL Anastasia's release date.
2. The Princess and the Goblin should be 1991.
3. Polar Express should be in '95. That's the ten-year anniversary of the book's release.
4. Why Five Weeks in a Balloon when 20,000 Leagues is so much more well known? And when you've already got Around the World in 80 Days. An animated adaptation of From Earth To The Moon would be as much an adaptation of the famous silent film as the book itself. The movies could be annual releases from 1990/1991 onwards. They'd be distributed by Paramount.
5. Three Musketeers should be '98.
6. The Iron Giant should be Turner.
7. The Oz Project could either be an adaptation of the second book to follow the MGM film or an adaptation of the first book to make it clear that it's Turner's unique version of the Oz Universe. Though undoubtedly it'd still share similarities with the MGM live-action film for recognition's sake.
8. The "Best of Both Worlds" film should either be released in 1990 or 1992 to avoid stepping on IV's toes. It's as much an advertisement for the show as the show is for the movie.
9. Bridge To Terrabithia sounds like it'd work as a Ruby-Spears production. Same thing with Tarzan.
10. Maybe Chronicles of Narnia is what Paramount Animation is doing in between Star Trek projects.
11. The Ghibli films should have a year (give or take) tacked on to their Japanese release date for proper dubbing. Except for the films that were released prior to the Ghibli-Amblimation deal. Like Totoro.

Maybe Best of Both Worlds can come out in '91 and be the centerpiece of Paramount's silver anniversary celebration for Star Trek.

A Turner Oz-Verse would be neat, and maybe this could be the opening logo, updated with a Turner byline of course...

Good call on Terabithia and Tarzan going to Ruby Spears. Would Ruby-Spears stick with Grand Diamond or hook up with someone else? Maybe New Line, Vestron, Carolco or Cannon?

I'm thinking Rise of the Sith could open on November 21 of '97, the same day Fox brought out Anastasia IOTL. That'll open the date Hercules opened for a B-Squad flick. Whaddaya say?

Iron Giant goes to Turner and maybe we can bring out the current UA logo a little early with that one, unless there's a better title to usher it in...

Besides Waterworld, what else can we give Universal/Gemini Animation to work on?

Between 20,000 Leagues, 80 Days and Journey to the Center of the Earth, which do you think should come out first?

If you were Steven Spielberg and David Geffen, which Ghibli title would you bring out first and what year? I'm thinking we could see this logo on US prints of Ghibli's flicks ITTL...

The titles we still don't have producers or distributors for are:
- Alexander and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day
- Hans Brinker, or the Silver Skates
- A Dog of Flanders
- Babysitter's Club
- Nancy Drew
- Berenstain Bears
- The BFG
- Grandma and the Pirates
- Strega Nona
- Miss Nelson is Missing

Besides Butter Battle Book and Daisy Head Mayzie, are there any other Dr Seuss stories that CMJ can adapt, or has that oil patch dried out? I want there to be a CMJ title for 1991, 1993, 1995, 1997 and 1999.