American Intervention in the Chinese Civil War

How possible would a US involvement in the Chinese Civil War be? How would it play out? Would the US recognize China's potential to be a rival/friend in the future and try to maintain a North Korea-South Korea status between tbe two?
 
I got interested in this very question a couple months ago. From my cursory reading, it seems that US Army was heavily opposed to going into China and everyone with any real political power in the US agreed. Further, if the US had gone in, it probably wouldn't have gone well. Poor terrain, bad infrastructure and open flanks would have meant that the starved giant of the US military would have gotten a good deal more bloody noses than they did in Korea (which was almost the perfect environment for the American strengths to come into play).

If the US went into China early enough (before 1947) my bet is that they and the Nationalists win. If they go in after 1947, my bet is they lose and probably badly.

And I doubt that it is terribly likely that China would end up a divided state. The Chinese really were keen to have a single united state that would be strong enough to make sure another war like the Sino-Japanese war didn't happen in the future. One of the reasons why the Nationalists lost support to the Communists so quickly is because people were switching sides because they thought the Communists could do a better job of securing an independent united China. Against that nationalistic tide, I don't think the US or the Soviet Union could really stop it if it went against their interests.

But like I say, I only recently looked into this question myself. I could be wrong.

fasquardon
 
There were a lot of problems regarding China. Some of the problem can be laid on President Chaing Kai Shek who was always afraid that any of the Nationalist Generals that had worked with Vingar Joe in Burma might attempt to overthrow him. Thus he didn't allow the reforms to go through. Thus in 1945 the best divisions of the Nationalist Army were rushed to Manchuria. They lacked the support that was needed. The Nationalist Chinese Air Force lacked the air Support that could have made all the difference.
On the part of the United States there were people in the State Department that wanted the Nationalist and the Communist to made a deal but the reality was that neither side was interested in Making one. When general Marshal became involved he recommended the with holding of military aid. This weaken the Nationalist as the Reds were receiving captured Japanese arms as well as soviet aid. The Nationalist bought surplus US Military aircraft only to have to US Government cut the rear off of the planes.
Could the use of the US Army and US Marines have altered the course of the Civil War yes. Even the use of large amounts of airpower would have changed things and might have convinced Stalin to withdraw support from Mao, who he disliked.
 
Is it likely that US ground troops would have been used in China after 1946 I think that the Answer would be no. The US might have deployed advisors and air support but it is unlikely that ground combat troops would be sent.
 

raharris1973

Gone Fishin'
Donor
Monthly Donor
From my cursory reading, it seems that US Army was heavily opposed to going into China and everyone with any real political power in the US agreed

Actually in 1947, the JCS did come up with a "can-do" proposal for a limited intervention, see Ernest May's "The Truman Administration & China" for details.

Granted, in 1945-1947 demobilization was the priority for politicians, the Army and troops alike. There were riots among US troops in China in '45 and '46 protesting the slower than expected demobilization and return home.

Despite MacArthur's quote US troops did go in to China, even if not explicitly to fight, and did get into some fights at times.


If the US went into China early enough (before 1947) my bet is that they and the Nationalists win. If they go in after 1947, my bet is they lose and probably badly.

This is somewhat similar to Tang Tsou's conclusions in
America's Failure in China, 1941-50

https://www.amazon.com/Americas-Fai...UTF8&qid=1467562106&sr=8-1&keywords=tang+tsou
 
The US Navy, USMC and the US Army Air Force did intervene in China in 1945. The Navy and the Army Air Force transported Nationalist troops into Manchuria and provided support to them. This provided the Nationalist with the Upper hand in the Civil War. With the demands to demobilize and Bring the boys home the US moved to less involvement. Still there were clashes between the USMC forces station around Peking and Communist Chinese forces. One of the Americans Killed was John Birch, who was an American Intelligence officer. His death would lead to the formation of a Right Wing Group in the US.
I really would doubt that if the US intervened in China in 1947 that the US would lose badly. The Communist Chinese forces were armed with a mixture of captured Japanese and US weapons (taken from the Nationalist) plus a trickle of soviet arms.
In 1947 the Reds lacked any industrial base capable of producing weapons. US intervention would probably have prevented a lot of the disasters that led to the collapse of the Nationalist forces. it would have also boosted the morale of the Nationalist and likely lead to Soviet withdrawal of any support for Mao. It needs to be repeated that Stalin did not like or trust Mao.
 
I really would doubt that if the US intervened in China in 1947 that the US would lose badly. The Communist Chinese forces were armed with a mixture of captured Japanese and US weapons (taken from the Nationalist) plus a trickle of soviet arms.
In 1947 the Reds lacked any industrial base capable of producing weapons. US intervention would probably have prevented a lot of the disasters that led to the collapse of the Nationalist forces. it would have also boosted the morale of the Nationalist and likely lead to Soviet withdrawal of any support for Mao. It needs to be repeated that Stalin did not like or trust Mao.
The Nationalists already had a 4 to 1 advantage over the Reds in manpower alone. Including their armaments, logistics, and foreign aid, their advantage *should* have been enough to swat the commies like flies. What destroyed the Nationalists was top-to-bottom corruption: generals didn't report the deaths of footsoldiers in order to pocket their salaries, ammo and food being pilfered and sold to the Commies, footsoldiers being paid in increasingly worthless banknotes, etc.

It got to the point that by the time the Commies were approaching the Yangtze River, KMT footsoldiers were being paid in silver coins which they stuffed in their pockets. As a result, they couldn't outrun the advancing Commies and were sitting targets. Entire KMT units defected without firing a shot. Finally, it needs to be noted that the Commies attracted countless recruits through promises of land reform. The KMT will recruit based on...what? Even a well-paid mercenary army can't be relied upon to fight their fellow countrymen.

Active US involvement would have further demoralized the KMT rank and file. It would have been a reverse of Vietnamization, where instead of the Americans withdrawing and the South Vietnamese entering the fight, it would be the Nationalist Chinese defecting/collapsing and the Americans entering the fight. Obviously this doesn't end well.
 
Assuming the political will is found, the greater contribution may have been an American "adviser" structure, not so much for training, but to provide a chain of reporting back to Chiang to get a handle on his corrupt chain of command. We are still talking of thousands of Americans on the ground plus whatever air support we want to add. If we made this string attached for the aid given then the KMT has an outside view into its own forces. The question is who was a real Chinese liking and knowing General or adviser to Truman (or even Marshall)? Someone with more cultural affinity and sensibility to shape policy, the so-called China lobby always appears to me a cute social club but having no actual ties to China, our policy was all romantic fiction in the end. What is needed is more bridges between the USA and the KMT beyond the 1800's notions of mysterious and exotic and inscrutable China.
 
The war was lost by 1947 and perhaps even before then. Had the Americans thrown in support for Chiang and decided not to allow any negotiation with the CCP in 1945-46 AND had Chiang come up with a good plan to totally root out the factors that were causing people to think that the communists were a good idea in a five year timeframe, they could've won. Actually, American support is not decisive in this situation. It's 90% about what Chiang and his men decide to do (not that they didn't have tons of long-term faults in their authority) to achieve victory.

The CCP won the war by doing whatever they could to exploit the gaps in the KMT's power. And the KMT had tons of gaps.
 
The were numerous problems with the Nationalist Army. As pointed out there was a lot of corruption that dated back to the 1920s. While some officers had been tried during the war for corruption there were still too many General taking money for soldiers that didn't exist. The best units in the Post War Nationalist Army were those divisions that had been trained and equipped by the US. They had fought in Burma and had proved that the Chinese soldier could go toe to toe with the Imperial Japanese Army and defeat them. In the Post World War II period these well trained divisions were scattered around southern Manchuria rather than kept together as a concentrated force. Chiang Kai Shek was afraid of a coup as he remembered what the Young Marshal had done to him at the beginning of the troubles with Japan. The Nationalist Army lacked the number of planes to truly support their army. That included lack of bombers and ground attack aircraft as well as transport aircraft such as the C-46 and C-47.
 
I think that it may be possible for the Americans to use their air power to bomb the communist army to the point of weakness where nationalist forces could over come them. Most American military commanders would be against a ground war in China. If communism is prevented from rising in mainland China it will also on the Korean Peninsula. American intervention in Korea would be much more emboldened because of victories in China.
 
Highly likely that Stalin would forbid the North Koreans from starting the war in the first place and if they did so he would do nothing to help them.
 
I think that it may be possible for the Americans to use their air power to bomb the communist army to the point of weakness where nationalist forces could over come them.
I agree the US might try. But they'd probably fail miserably. That tactic was ineffective in Vietnam, and it doubt it would have worked in China.
Most American military commanders would be against a ground war in China.
So true, so true. To seriously change the war in China, the US would probably need something like the entire army they send overseas in WWII, and the US was simply not going to engage in that kind of effort after defeating Germany and Japan.

The only way I see major US support of Chiang to the degree necessary is if WWII rolls over into WWIII with the Soviets attacking the West in Germany. And Stalin wasn't that stupid.
 
Actually air power could be very effective. In the Vietnam war it could be very effective. But to win the war the Army of the Republic of China would have to be combat effective. Which means that those US trained divisions needed to be saved and more units brought up to the standards of the US trained divisions. He who tries to hold everything ends up holding nothing.
President Truman was quickly convinced that Stalin was not America's friend and incidents in Greece, Persia and Germany just reinforced that. Stalin with held Soviet support from Mao because he really disliked MAO. He had not gotten along with the Communist Chinese leader when he met him during the second world war. Frankly he would have preferred the Nationalist to have won. The Soviets did not supply the Communist Chinese army with any Soviet equipment until it was clear that they had won the Civil War. Thus unlike Vietnam the Communist forces would not have planes, Missiles and massive flak to counter US Air Power.
 
Top