American Expansionism and Colonialism: 1898-1938

What if the United States remained an expansionist, colonial power going into the later part of the 20th century? Maybe the Pancho Villa raid leads to a war, which leads to the annexation of Northern Mexico. Also, through the 1920's and 1930's, the USA occupied many, many Caribbean islands and Central American nations; how plausible is it that they could be annexed? If the USA joins WW1 as IOTL, perhaps we could see some former German colonies becoming American colonies in Africa or Asia (assuming the entente wins). How plausible do you all think this is, and what would be a good POD?
This is my third new thread in as many minutes, I just like to get all of my ideas out there at once sometimes! This is the last one, I promise!
 
There, is this map cliche enough for you?

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So is this a serious thread or not? Cause we would need to look into the social and political factors that led the U.S. to eventually stall and then back off of imperialism.
 
I will try to make this a serious discussion.

The truth is that we were, and to an extent still are, and expansionist and imperial nation; however, we do so often economically, rather than militarily when we establish dominions.

Now, if we were to expand as YOU suggest, obviously Cuba, Puerto Rico, and the Phillipines would be territories of the United States. Ironically, I am reading a book call "The Imperial Cruise" that goes over this era (and removes much of the gilding that has been done to history). Panama would be added later as a Commonwealth when American troops occupy it in 1903. This would be followed by Nicaragua in 1912, the Haiti in 1915, and the Dominican Republic of 1916. They may take control of a port in China as a naval base since everybody else was doing it, and it would serve as the projection for American influence in China (which in some ways may be troublesome.

After victory in the First World War, we DO NOT get much. Africa has been shut out by the European powers, as has the Pacific by Japan. However, it makes up for it with control of Northern Turkey (including Istanbul) and "Wilsonian Armenia" (which made up a significant portion of Eastern Turkey). The American presence keeps the Turks from succeeding in reclaiming the lands lost in the Treaty of Sevres. Armenia and Pontus eventually become American Commonwealths in their own right. There is likely a larger intervention in Russia, but the experiances of the Great War prevent it from strongly influencing the Civil War. Instead, a White Russian Republic is established that reaches from Vladivostok to the Umur River, with Commonwealth status.

Mexico could come under American control, but the entrance into the Great War would likely prevent any meaningful development of control over the nation. All is quiet from then until 1939 due to the Great Depression.
 
i read Imperial Cruise. it pretty much trashes TR. Not too many historians are giving it a thumbs up. Blaming TR for WW2.
 
Imperial Cruise in my opinion takes some facts and twists them into a pretty good novel. I had to do a bit of digging too check the scources and the real history is just not there.
 
i read Imperial Cruise. it pretty much trashes TR. Not too many historians are giving it a thumbs up. Blaming TR for WW2.

Blaming World War II on Theodore Roosevelt? That's even stupider than blamming the Iraq War on Slick Willy (and it has been tried.)
 
I think American colonialism would be best in Central America; it's so close that soldiers can go home for the weekend.

The Monroe Doctrine tells the Europeans to stay out (enforcing it is another issue) so the lands to the south of us would be the easiest place to exploit, and since their is a history of Republicanism in Central America (albeit brief) incorperating them into the Union would seem an easier task than some far off place like the Phillipines.
 
Out of morbid curiosity, how are you intending to make the USA more dystopian to achieve this aim?

Colonialism implies a sort of "we are better than them" kind of mentality that leads to human rights abuses, atrocities, ethnic cleansing and ultimately genocide. If you want a very imperialist America, it's going to be a militant warwanking society with a low regard for human rights.

The USA has gone too far into the whole "Colonization" business in OTL. If the USA annexes Mexico, it's going to follow up by reducing the Mexican people to helotry or disposing of them.

I'd suggest some kind of Neo-Confederate clique come to power with a backroom alliance that the United States will remain united as a White Power nation. This time, the USA will attack Mexico and start killing the Mexican people so that it can repopulate the region with its own people.

It is harder to see how this evil USA would be able to attack Canada. The Canucks have a lot in common with the United States and in any rate, they're aligned behind the world's superpower. The Canadians generally aren't huge fans of joining the USA to start with, they'd be less interested in joining or supporting a Neo-Confederate Hellhole.

How to pull this off?

Start by butterflying someone like John Chivington into the Presidency, where views against Nonwhites can turn into a Hitleresque nightmare. The USA simply wipes out native peoples to repopulate the regions with their own. The USA thus expands into Mexico, the Phillipines, Cuba--by wiping out the people who live there and replacing them with their own.

By 1930, President Floyd Burnington has managed to annex the entire regions of Mexico, Central America and the Phillipines, Hawaii and Cuba. A Rising Political Star in Germany, Adolf Hitler, gains huge audiences by offering Germans their own vast empire.
 
I think a successful Reconstruction could lead to the United States developing a white man's burden mentality toward Central and South America actively bringing them into the Union as states to stop the endless infighting present in Latin America and the Philippines.
 
So is this a serious thread or not? Cause we would need to look into the social and political factors that led the U.S. to eventually stall and then back off of imperialism.
Bah, my response comes back to haunt me. Yes, serious discussion please.

I will try to make this a serious discussion.

The truth is that we were, and to an extent still are, and expansionist and imperial nation; however, we do so often economically, rather than militarily when we establish dominions.

Now, if we were to expand as YOU suggest, obviously Cuba, Puerto Rico, and the Phillipines would be territories of the United States. Ironically, I am reading a book call "The Imperial Cruise" that goes over this era (and removes much of the gilding that has been done to history). Panama would be added later as a Commonwealth when American troops occupy it in 1903. This would be followed by Nicaragua in 1912, the Haiti in 1915, and the Dominican Republic of 1916. They may take control of a port in China as a naval base since everybody else was doing it, and it would serve as the projection for American influence in China (which in some ways may be troublesome.

After victory in the First World War, we DO NOT get much. Africa has been shut out by the European powers, as has the Pacific by Japan. However, it makes up for it with control of Northern Turkey (including Istanbul) and "Wilsonian Armenia" (which made up a significant portion of Eastern Turkey). The American presence keeps the Turks from succeeding in reclaiming the lands lost in the Treaty of Sevres. Armenia and Pontus eventually become American Commonwealths in their own right. There is likely a larger intervention in Russia, but the experiances of the Great War prevent it from strongly influencing the Civil War. Instead, a White Russian Republic is established that reaches from Vladivostok to the Umur River, with Commonwealth status.

Mexico could come under American control, but the entrance into the Great War would likely prevent any meaningful development of control over the nation. All is quiet from then until 1939 due to the Great Depression.
Thanks for the good input. Colonies in Turkey seem rather far away from the USA. I was thinking more specifically on the American continents, since they are far closer and there is precedent.

Out of morbid curiosity, how are you intending to make the USA more dystopian to achieve this aim?

Colonialism implies a sort of "we are better than them" kind of mentality that leads to human rights abuses, atrocities, ethnic cleansing and ultimately genocide. If you want a very imperialist America, it's going to be a militant warwanking society with a low regard for human rights.

The USA has gone too far into the whole "Colonization" business in OTL. If the USA annexes Mexico, it's going to follow up by reducing the Mexican people to helotry or disposing of them.

I'd suggest some kind of Neo-Confederate clique come to power with a backroom alliance that the United States will remain united as a White Power nation. This time, the USA will attack Mexico and start killing the Mexican people so that it can repopulate the region with its own people.

It is harder to see how this evil USA would be able to attack Canada. The Canucks have a lot in common with the United States and in any rate, they're aligned behind the world's superpower. The Canadians generally aren't huge fans of joining the USA to start with, they'd be less interested in joining or supporting a Neo-Confederate Hellhole.

How to pull this off?

Start by butterflying someone like John Chivington into the Presidency, where views against Nonwhites can turn into a Hitleresque nightmare. The USA simply wipes out native peoples to repopulate the regions with their own. The USA thus expands into Mexico, the Phillipines, Cuba--by wiping out the people who live there and replacing them with their own.

By 1930, President Floyd Burnington has managed to annex the entire regions of Mexico, Central America and the Phillipines, Hawaii and Cuba. A Rising Political Star in Germany, Adolf Hitler, gains huge audiences by offering Germans their own vast empire.

Your scenario seems extreme, and I don't follow your thought process. Why would I have to make the USA more dystopian--the USA had colonies and occupied numerous Central American nations. The difference would just be occupying them longer, not genociding the population.
 
Your scenario seems extreme, and I don't follow your thought process. Why would I have to make the USA more dystopian--the USA had colonies and occupied numerous Central American nations. The difference would just be occupying them longer, not genociding the population.

Because the USA would have to think much less of the Central Americans it is busily Colonizing.

This means, to be blunt, that the USA has decided that the peoples of Central America should no longer be able to decide their own future and should take their orders from Washington. This is well beyond putting the Somoza family in charge of Nicaragua.

Furthermore, the people of Central America are not going to like being economically exploited by the United States, which is where the payoff for this plan is. The people of the United States are going to view them as inferior--that's how the racist, protestant USA played at the time.

So the USA, which already did in OTL exploit its neighbors ruthlessly, has decided to impose itself over these nations governments--and this is supposed to be a stable arrangement?

This is going to end badly. And it's going to be a sordid, bloody affair. I can not recall a colonial grab like this working--if the territory has a large native population, they're either going to be assimilated, ejected, or wiped out. The USA in this period is unlikely to do the first.
 
After an even longer, bloodier, and more destructive World War I, the USA, with Canada, look upon the remains of Europe. The USA has the largest and healthiest military force in Europe. Revolution and mutiny wrack the countries of Europe in a series of convulsions. Out of various motives, the USA, and Canada, declare a protectorate over the war-ravaged parts of Western and Central Europe (including the British Isles.)

Yes, it is an insane proposal. :D I did include Canada as co-occupier of Europe, so that should garner support from the Canadian nationists. :D
 
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