American Empire Plausibility

Vexacus

Banned
Just how plausible is an ATL version of the US being an actual Empire instead of as a Republic?. Which of these, if any, would be the most likely.

1: When offered the title of King of America, George Washington accepts the title, and states that "From here-on, the United States is hereby reorganised into the Empire of America".

2: After he is sworn-in as President, Washington abolishes all politicos parties and opposition, declaring himself "Emperor of the United American Empire".

3: During the Civil War, Lincoln is deposed by militaristic elements within the GOP. They install Senator David Jefferson Adams as President, who announces a plan of total war against the South. He issues orders to the troops to accept no quarter from the South and anyone not pledging allegiance to the United States is to be executed on sight. He abolishes all opposition and sets up a virtual dictatorship, with himself as dictator. 2 years after the civil war began, the Confederacy surrenders and Jefferson Davis is executed on the Mall in Washington as a "A traitor to the Union". With the South back under control, President Adams takes the believe of manifest destiny to heart and announces that "The United States died when the South rebelled against our control, that will never happen again. From the ashes of this war for country now rises the Empire of Washington".

4: The States in the South ceded and instead of forming the Confederate States of America, they are reformed into the Confederate Empire, with Jefferson Davis as it's head. The Union is not able to beat the Empire and despite their best efforts, they are unable,to hold them off. President Lincoln and his cabinet flee to Canada as Emperor Davis enters Washington. General Grants surrenders to General Lee and the victorious Emperor Davis formally annexes the Union into the Confederate Empire.
 
Just how plausible is an ATL version of the US being an actual Empire instead of as a Republic?. Which of these, if any, would be the most likely.

1: When offered the title of King of America, George Washington accepts the title, and states that "From here-on, the United States is hereby reorganised into the Empire of America".

2: After he is sworn-in as President, Washington abolishes all politicos parties and opposition, declaring himself "Emperor of the United American Empire".

3: During the Civil War, Lincoln is deposed by militaristic elements within the GOP. They install Senator David Jefferson Adams as President, who announces a plan of total war against the South. He issues orders to the troops to accept no quarter from the South and anyone not pledging allegiance to the United States is to be executed on sight. He abolishes all opposition and sets up a virtual dictatorship, with himself as dictator. 2 years after the civil war began, the Confederacy surrenders and Jefferson Davis is executed on the Mall in Washington as a "A traitor to the Union". With the South back under control, President Adams takes the believe of manifest destiny to heart and announces that "The United States died when the South rebelled against our control, that will never happen again. From the ashes of this war for country now rises the Empire of Washington".

4: The States in the South ceded and instead of forming the Confederate States of America, they are reformed into the Confederate Empire, with Jefferson Davis as it's head. The Union is not able to beat the Empire and despite their best efforts, they are unable,to hold them off. President Lincoln and his cabinet flee to Canada as Emperor Davis enters Washington. General Grants surrenders to General Lee and the victorious Emperor Davis formally annexes the Union into the Confederate Empire.

The first one could be plausible, but mainly only if the Patriots *lose* the Revolution, and the Kingship is offered as a compromise(I did this in a TL of mine, btw). Everything else is pretty much ASB territory.
 
Bear in mind that the idea of "Emperor" as just a fancy title for "King" is a modern (19th-century) development. Before that, Emperors were understood as claiming either a universal jurisdiction over the entire world (e.g., the Chinese Emperors), and/or as claiming descent from the Roman Empire (e.g., the Holy Roman Emperors, the Byzantine Emperors, the Russian Emperors). Since America neither claimed to be the legitimate successor of Rome, nor claimed to be the rightful overlord of planet Earth, it's far more likely that her monarchs would style themselves King, rather than Emperor.
 
2-4 are strait ASB.
1) Why would he crown himself Emperor, not King? Words have meanings and Emporer is quickly becoming the European Caliph in terms of improper AH overuse.
 
Bear in mind that the idea of "Emperor" as just a fancy title for "King" is a modern (19th-century) development. Before that, Emperors were understood as claiming either a universal jurisdiction over the entire world (e.g., the Chinese Emperors), and/or as claiming descent from the Roman Empire (e.g., the Holy Roman Emperors, the Byzantine Emperors, the Russian Emperors).
True, but part of the reason Napoleon chose the imperial title a couple decades later was because "Emperor" had republican connotations to it, in that the Roman emperor was at least nominally elected by the Senate. Along with the fact that the Founding Fathers were inspired by Ancient Rome when creating their new republic, it's not too implausible that they would prefer a Roman title over "King," which had been tainted in their eyes by Great Britain.

After all, the Framers named the upper house of Congress after an institution that had been almost solely associated with Ancient Rome up to that point. Why not use another ancient style while they were at it?
 
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The US is already an empire. Remember all the brown skinned people out west? They had their own countries too until the bluecoats arrived.
 
3: During the Civil War, Lincoln is deposed by militaristic elements within the GOP. They install Senator David Jefferson Adams as President, who announces a plan of total war against the South. He issues orders to the troops to accept no quarter from the South and anyone not pledging allegiance to the United States is to be executed on sight. He abolishes all opposition and sets up a virtual dictatorship, with himself as dictator. 2 years after the civil war began, the Confederacy surrenders and Jefferson Davis is executed on the Mall in Washington as a "A traitor to the Union". With the South back under control, President Adams takes the believe of manifest destiny to heart and announces that "The United States died when the South rebelled against our control, that will never happen again. From the ashes of this war for country now rises the Empire of Washington".

4: The States in the South ceded and instead of forming the Confederate States of America, they are reformed into the Confederate Empire, with Jefferson Davis as it's head. The Union is not able to beat the Empire and despite their best efforts, they are unable,to hold them off. President Lincoln and his cabinet flee to Canada as Emperor Davis enters Washington. General Grants surrenders to General Lee and the victorious Emperor Davis formally annexes the Union into the Confederate Empire.


WHAT?

filler
 
There were no real parties at the point he was sworn in, with people being those for or against him. Those against him never saying it in public out of the risk of never getting elected again. And being run out of town on a rail.
 
One thing that probably should be pointed out. Washington was so popular for constantly getting great power, then giving it up. Also, he was sterile. It might cause problems for an heir, unless you went the route of Poland-Lithuania.
 
What about Imperial Republic, like Rome was, before Cesar...ish...

Still a Empire, just without the monarchical factor
 
What about Imperial Republic, like Rome was, before Cesar...ish...

Still a Empire, just without the monarchical factor

If by "Imperial Republic" you mean "a country with a republican form of government which is highly expansionist and rules over a large area," that's pretty much IOTL United States.
 
True, but part of the reason Napoleon chose the imperial title a couple decades later was because "Emperor" had republican connotations to it, in that the Roman emperor was at least nominally elected by the Senate. Along with the fact that the Founding Fathers were inspired by Ancient Rome when creating their new republic, it's not too implausible that they would prefer a Roman title over "King," which had been tainted in their eyes by Great Britain.

After all, the Framers named the upper house of Congress after an institution that had been almost solely associated with Ancient Rome up to that point. Why not use another ancient style while they were at it?

The Founders were inspired by Rome, but in terms of continuity they saw themselves more as the descendants of England than as the heirs of Rome. I'm not sure whether Napoleon chose the title Emperor because it was more republican (although I'd be surprised, since surely most people at that time would associate the title more with the distinctly un-republican Holy Roman Empire right next door to them), because he was trying to cast himself as the rightful heir to the Romans (cf. the Eagles), or whether he was simply giving the middle finger to the Austrians. Either way, though, this was widely seen as a megalomaniacal move by most European governments, and George Washington was by all accounts not the same sort of glory-hound as Napoleon.
 
If you want someone despotic enough to claim the title of Emperor, you need to have somebody other than Washington. It just wasn't in the guy's character to seize power like that.
 
Just how plausible is an ATL version of the US being an actual Empire instead of as a Republic?. Which of these, if any, would be the most likely.

1: When offered the title of King of America, George Washington accepts the title, and states that "From here-on, the United States is hereby reorganised into the Empire of America".

2: After he is sworn-in as President, Washington abolishes all politicos parties and opposition, declaring himself "Emperor of the United American Empire".

3: During the Civil War, Lincoln is deposed by militaristic elements within the GOP. They install Senator David Jefferson Adams as President, who announces a plan of total war against the South. He issues orders to the troops to accept no quarter from the South and anyone not pledging allegiance to the United States is to be executed on sight. He abolishes all opposition and sets up a virtual dictatorship, with himself as dictator. 2 years after the civil war began, the Confederacy surrenders and Jefferson Davis is executed on the Mall in Washington as a "A traitor to the Union". With the South back under control, President Adams takes the believe of manifest destiny to heart and announces that "The United States died when the South rebelled against our control, that will never happen again. From the ashes of this war for country now rises the Empire of Washington".

4: The States in the South ceded and instead of forming the Confederate States of America, they are reformed into the Confederate Empire, with Jefferson Davis as it's head. The Union is not able to beat the Empire and despite their best efforts, they are unable,to hold them off. President Lincoln and his cabinet flee to Canada as Emperor Davis enters Washington. General Grants surrenders to General Lee and the victorious Emperor Davis formally annexes the Union into the Confederate Empire.

George Washington becoming King isn't implausible with the right butterflies, but declaring himself Emperor strikes me as rather unlikely. As for the second and third ideas, it's not unknown for political leaders to become mad with power, so the idea of a President trying to seize monarchical power (although they'd probably not adopt the title King of Emperor for PR reasons) isn't ASB, although Washington doesn't seem like the sort of person to do so (don't know enough about Adams to comment). The fourth scenario strikes me as totally ASB: the Confederacy wouldn't be a monarchy (unless the US already was, perhaps), it wouldn't have been able to defeat the rest of the US convincingly enough to annexe it, and even if it did, why would it? The CSA was formed because they were worried that the North was becoming politically, economically and demographically dominant, and that they'd use this dominance to enforce abolitionism. Taking over the USA after the war would just recreate the problem (if they enfranchise the North) or leave the CSA with the task of trying to occupy a far larger, wealthier and more prosperous country than itself (if they try to rule over the North as a province).
 
If you want someone despotic enough to claim the title of Emperor, you need to have somebody other than Washington. It just wasn't in the guy's character to seize power like that.

Maybe if you butterfly events so that (a) Washington has at least one male child and (b) he gets made King, we might see him founding a dynasty, one of whose members ends up trying to seize power and rule as a despotic monarch. Really when you're writing about a fictional dynasty, you can give them pretty much any personality you want.
 
Maybe if you butterfly events so that (a) Washington has at least one male child and (b) he gets made King, we might see him founding a dynasty, one of whose members ends up trying to seize power and rule as a despotic monarch. Really when you're writing about a fictional dynasty, you can give them pretty much any personality you want.

Yeah, that seems reasonable. I was just saying that George Washington himself was too much of a good guy to just go "I'm Emperor, you all have to do as I say". But all bets are off with his sons or grandsons.
 
Yeah, that seems reasonable. I was just saying that George Washington himself was too much of a good guy to just go "I'm Emperor, you all have to do as I say". But all bets are off with his sons or grandsons.

You can try something with the Custis Lees. Though certain Lees were not supportive of Washington, so they might not be the best of help for a dynasty.
 
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