American Civil War triggers worldwide conflict

[acgoldis]

Not sure how plausible this is, but here goes.

1. POD: The American government buildings are placed in the Alexandria half of the District of Columbia rather than in the Washington half. This is land ceded from Virginia.

2. As the Civil War approaches, many more people in northern Virginia are in favor of staying in the Union.

3. States start seceding, and Virginia discusses secession. The southern part of the state favors secession while the northern half of the state favors staying in the Union.

4. A vote is held in Virginia, and Virginia decides to stay in the Union. It's close.

5. Southern Virginia secedes to join the Confederacy. The state splits north/south ITTL instead of east/west as IOTL.

6. Fighting begins, and Robert E. Lee is asked to choose a side. He stays with his original state as IOTL and continues to serve in the Union Army.

7. Lee is placed in charge of operations in Southern Virginia and is as capable a commander as he is IOTL. The Confederates are getting routed.

8. Desperate, the Confederacy makes a major gamble. They ask the Spanish to join them. In exchange for securing independence for the Confederacy, they decide to offer part or all of Florida back to Spain.

9. Spain accepts. They start messing with the Union West, drawing troops into California and places in the Great Plains, and raid the East Coast in their ships. This changes the course of the war and helps the Confederacy reverse its losses. Good luck securing New Orleans and the Mississippi. Now it's the Union's turn to be in trouble.

10. The British see an opportunity to turn the war into a proxy war with Spain. They tell the Union that they will support them in exchange for New England should the Union win ("we want our colonies back, and you've got some!"). The Union says this is highway robbery. The British tell them that at the rate things are going they're going to lose the South anyway:
"If you accept this offer, you'll lose fewer states than you would if let the Confederacy run all over you! In our opinion, you have no alternative."
The Union reluctantly accepts.

11. The British and Spanish start raiding each other's ships in the Atlantic ("we don't want Richmond to get those supplies!") and people in Europe start getting pissed. And things escalate from there. Eventually, France gets called up:

"Hey, you want Louisiana or Quebec back? Pick a side! We'll be nice and allow you to keep all your current colonies no matter who wins over there!"

 

[the Rogue prince]

Technically, both the Seven Years' War and the American War of Independence or the Civil War were "World war" conflicts, only they did not have global coverage due to the shortcomings of their times, and there were fewer countries involved because there were great powers and empires that encompassed them. but in practice they were world wars.

 

[wcv215]

There is absolutely no way any Union president is going to sell New England for British help in the ACW. Not only would it be political suicide, it would also be just actual suicide. He’d be lynched by an angry mob.

Not to mention this would cause the New England state governments to refuse to contribute any troops, dooming the war effort anyway.

And how the hell does Spain advance from who the frak know where into the Great Plains? Did they get access to a teleportation device somewhere? Hell, what does Spain even do in terms of naval contributions? They have no ironclads, and the Numancia won’t be done until 1863. Of the ships they sent to the Pacific to fight that war most won’t be done until 1864. Against the rapidly expanding US navy, by 1863 seven ironclads were used against Charleston alone.

And Florida would revolt if promised to Spain.

Sorry but this premise just does not make any sense.

 

[acgoldis]

There is absolutely no way any Union president is going to sell New England for British help in the ACW. Not only would it be political suicide, it would also be just actual suicide. He’d be lynched by an angry mob.

Not to mention this would cause the New England state governments to refuse to contribute any troops, dooming the war effort anyway.

And how the hell does Spain advance from who the frak know where into the Great Plains? Did they get access to a teleportation device somewhere?

In that case what could the British ask for? Oregon?

I was thinking the Spanish could send troops over from New Spain in the Southwest.

 

[wcv215]

In that case what could the British ask for? Oregon?

I was thinking the Spanish could send troops over from New Spain in the Southwest.

There is no New Spain, and hasn’t been for 5 decades. The British might be able to get Oregon…if the boundary had not been settled 15 years earlier. Though through neogtiatipn, not blackmail.

Though as I edited in, I don’t really see how much Spain can contribute. It would definitely help the Confederacy if Spain was on their side, but given the US’s advantage in industry I don’t see the Spanish Navy winning as things stand in 1862, and will stand as the Union’s mass naval expansion comes online. A naval expansion that still let them sell ironclads overseas while the war was ongoing.

 

[Whanztastic]

Spain in 1861 wasn’t exactly a menacing power. They’re losing 10,000 soldiers in attempting to reclaim the Dominican Republic. I doubt Floridians will be happy with the idea too. Maybe if France and other powers got involved… then it’s a UK vs. Continent war which seems more common.

 

[Wendell]

I think you can escalate things without federal buildings on the Virginia side of the Potomac back in the day. Consider the conflicts already going on in the 1860s in OTL.

 

[Fatt Shea]

Your scenario only makes sense in a scenario where the Spanish empire survives. Even then UK would just help the north without taking new England

 

[Jedi Dragon]

The ACW could escalate, but not like this. Maybe Britain and/or France could recognize the C.S.A., and Russia could join in on the side of the Union, but Spain would be a non-factor.

 

[octoberman]

USN was second only to RN during the civil war. Spain which was a joke after napoleon can't even touch it

 

[wcv215]

USN was second only to RN during the civil war. Spain which was a joke after napoleon can't even touch it

That’s not exactly true. Spain is on the verge of having a naval resurgence. The problem is its too early for that, so they’re going to war without the strengthened fleet they’d have a few years later. (This is why the CSA is doomed if it tries to take Cuba after the ACW even if the US stays out of it).

 

[Belisarius II]

In that case what could the British ask for? Oregon?

I was thinking the Spanish could send troops over from New Spain in the Southwest.

Nothing. Oregon was already a State, and Washington already had 12,000 people. Other than a dispute over some small islands near Vancouver the border was settled. If anything in the 1860's more people thought British Columbia would join the United States, because the Americans economically dominated BC, rather than the British dominating Washington.

 

[Belisarius II]

That’s not exactly true. Spain is on the verge of having a naval resurgence. The problem is its too early for that, so they’re going to war without the strengthened fleet they’d have a few years later. (This is why the CSA is doomed if it tries to take Cuba after the ACW even if the US stays out of it).

Respectfully the whole idea of Spain fighting the U.S. without at least being in alliance the UK is absurd. Spain lacked the economic strength to fight a major power. The CSA wasn't going to give them Florida, or anything else, and Spain had no interest in it anyway. At this time Spain did want Santa Domingo back, but they weren't even strong enough to achieve that goal.

 

[wcv215]

Respectfully the whole idea of Spain fighting the U.S. without at least being in alliance the UK is absurd. Spain lacked the economic strength to fight a major power. The CSA wasn't going to give them Florida, or anything else, and Spain had no interest in it anyway. At this time Spain did want Santa Domingo back, but they weren't even strong enough to achieve that goal.

Not saying otherwise. All I’m saying is that dismissing Spain as a joke at this point is ‘t correct. Its was definitely a second-rate power, but not a “joke”. You’ll note that in my first post I explained why Spain is extremely unlikely to defeat the USN of the Civil War.

 

[Belisarius II]

Not saying otherwise. All I’m saying is that dismissing Spain as a joke at this point is ‘t correct. Its was definitely a second-rate power, but not a “joke”. You’ll note that in my first post I explained why Spain is extremely unlikely to defeat the USN of the Civil War.

Where do the Spanish even start off in a war against the Union? What's their objective, and what strategy do they pursue to achieve it?