Yes I was talking about Jacobus’s post at the top of the comment chain. Hadn’t actually seen the map at all.
Ah okay. I agree with that.
American civil war delayed until 1869, what are the consequences?
- Thread starter Crazymachines
- Start date
Its mainly led by people who were bigshots in the pre-Guadalupe Hidalgo era whereas Northern California was dominated by Anglos and other migrants from the 1846 and the 49ers. Also another factor against the success of this partition is Pio Paco being a bandit and a backer of SoCal and maybe pro Anglo policies in the Union. One big issue was making it more difficult for Californios to win office and stacking the government for the benefit of Anglos. and violating the promises to respect preexisting land claims of Rancheros.
What if people took Norton seriously? Could Norton pull off preventing war by Imperial fiat. Especially since the Peruvian rice shipment that causes his breakdown isnt changed by no war.
But it's not like it'll take someone like Buell longer than OTL because of the greater resources available than OTL, and we didn't in the context of the post you're quoting have specifics on if you have more men like Buell and Bragg, or more Grants and Lees, commanding the armies that are formed here.
My educated guess, looking at it in the light of the OTL developing of the Union war machine and its potential, is that you're more likely to see it be 1869-1872 than 1869-1870, or 1869-1877.
Certainly I don't think it would be Year 1 and Done kind of thing, but neither the 4 Years of OTL. I think 2.5-3 Years is reasonable.
Unless there's an American Napoleon hiding somewhere waiting for the reins... wouldn't that be something?
I think I might have caused some confusion with the wording of my post lol. I don't mean to imply that SoCal would have seceded from the Union; just from California. For what its worth, the Pico Act was voted on by the legislature in Sacramento and signed by Governor Weller.
While I think that most likely a Republican would have won in 1864 if Douglas won in 1860, this scenario seems to presuppose that Democrats stay in power until 1869. Under that scenario, I can see the route of the transcontinental railroad being effected. If the railroad is constructed further south, rather than along the Platte River Valley, that would most likely change everything about the I-80 corridor. That's an entire slice of the country rendered fairly unrecognizable.
While I think that most likely a Republican would have won in 1864 if Douglas won in 1860, this scenario seems to presuppose that Democrats stay in power until 1869. Under that scenario, I can see the route of the transcontinental railroad being effected. If the railroad is constructed further south, rather than along the Platte River Valley, that would most likely change everything about the I-80 corridor. That's an entire slice of the country rendered fairly unrecognizable.
There was a petition from Sacramento to split the state in two at Congress's desk that was ignored because the civil war broke out. Jacobus is proposing that Congress would actually look at that petition. Although considering it had a year to approve said petition from Sacramento and didn't implies that it engaged in a pocket veto and thus would turn down the request. Whether Pico's allies in Sacramento would then spend the next decade as long as they had enough votes in Sacramento and the governorship spamming Congress is another question.
It was a bill from Sacramento trying to break the state up into more maneagable pieces. In 1855 according to Wikipedia they had attempted and failed to pass Ted Draper's 3 california plan in Sacramento but in 1859 Sacramento said yes to the break up of California into two states. It got to Washington but in Washington consideration of the petition was ignored due to the Civil War.
Doesn't the fact that Congress sat on the Pico Act mean they engaged in a pocket veto of the petition? Although would Pico and his allies in Sacramento keep spamming Congress until they lacked the power to do so?
Massachusetts allowed it, they didn't secede on their own authority.
The general consensus is that Southern railroads would be superior to OTL in quantity and quality, with resultant benefit for regional industrialization, bureaucracy, managerial control, and public interest in promoting technology and the mechanical arts. Of course, this would both aid Confederate mobilization and defense on 'interior lines', but also facilitate Federal invasion.
Georgia and Alabama would flourish exceptionally in regard to industry, especially if the planned and proposed railroads in Central Alabama, designed to exploit and tether the 'mineral region' of present-day Birmingham to Montgomery and Selma, can be completed as rapidly as the average Southwestern line in the late 1850s amidst the booming competition between Charleston, Mobile, and New Orleans. This road-building program was also designed to limit sectionalism within the State by commercially-connecting the Tennessee (appreciably Unionist IOTL), Alabama, and Coosa River Valleys. Rail communications from Chattanooga to Vicksburg would in general be more direct and short, rendering Joseph E. Johnston's OTL Western Military Division much more viable in regard to inter-departmental re-enforcement between Tennessee and Mississippi.
Crédit Mobilier would remain Duff Green's 'Pennsylvania Fiscal Agency', which will proceed with its international scheme to consolidate the transcontinental 'Southern Pacific' route projected to connect Washington, D.C., and the Mexican Pacific coast. The trans-Mississippi roads will require much labor, especially State-contracted slave. Indian and bandit raids would also be an issue on the frontier.
Georgia and Alabama would flourish exceptionally in regard to industry, especially if the planned and proposed railroads in Central Alabama, designed to exploit and tether the 'mineral region' of present-day Birmingham to Montgomery and Selma, can be completed as rapidly as the average Southwestern line in the late 1850s amidst the booming competition between Charleston, Mobile, and New Orleans. This road-building program was also designed to limit sectionalism within the State by commercially-connecting the Tennessee (appreciably Unionist IOTL), Alabama, and Coosa River Valleys. Rail communications from Chattanooga to Vicksburg would in general be more direct and short, rendering Joseph E. Johnston's OTL Western Military Division much more viable in regard to inter-departmental re-enforcement between Tennessee and Mississippi.
Crédit Mobilier would remain Duff Green's 'Pennsylvania Fiscal Agency', which will proceed with its international scheme to consolidate the transcontinental 'Southern Pacific' route projected to connect Washington, D.C., and the Mexican Pacific coast. The trans-Mississippi roads will require much labor, especially State-contracted slave. Indian and bandit raids would also be an issue on the frontier.