American Century V1: Euro-American War of 1898 - Prologue

Fascinating...I'd like to include such a massive shift to make France a three-dimensional realistic actor in the story, but fear the language barrier makes that difficult if not impossible for me to do well on my own.

I would say that in the short term, France is not richer YET in the ATL as they haven't gotten ROI yet. Finishing the canal took the USA fourteen years even benefiting from the French moving about 1/5 of the dirt in the process of failing prior. For France to succeed would take something similar in time scale. Starting in 1884 as in OTL, I postulate they'd be done similarly in ATL Nicaragua foutrteen years later. That would be 1898, just in time for a war to be fought over it.
If they just finish the Panama canal instead of going for Nicaragua, they'd be finished earlier.

It's not just a matter of return on investment but pure cashflow coming in and the might that goes with it. France will have, once again, changed the face of the globe after Suez. Who gives a shit about Alsace-Lorraine anymore? Fuck Germany, France now controls a massive portion of the world shipping.

You could see crazy projects coming up: the Trans-saharian railway going from Algeria to the Gulf of Guinea, the Chott El-Djerid canal, creating a sea in the Sahara.
It's incremental: if the savings, and trust, of the French citizens are not impacted by the Panama scandal, they'll go crazy for geo-engineering, which means they might be able to make their African colonies profitable (something that was never achieved).

Anyway, I'm getting ahead of myself. Point is, no Panama scandal means less populist politics. This means that France will be more sure of herself and less prone to Witch hunting
 
If they just finish the Panama canal instead of going for Nicaragua, they'd be finished earlier.

I read in Path Between the Seas that when the USA assessed which country to put the canal through circa 1900, they found that Panama was only quicker because the French had already done so much work there, and because they left so much infrastructure. All things being from scratch, the French would have completed a Nicaragua Canal faster.
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It's not just a matter of return on investment but pure cashflow coming in and the might that goes with it. France will have, once again, changed the face of the globe after Suez. Who gives a shit about Alsace-Lorraine anymore? Fuck Germany, France now controls a massive portion of the world shipping.

You could see crazy projects coming up: the Trans-saharian railway going from Algeria to the Gulf of Guinea, the Chott El-Djerid canal, creating a sea in the Sahara.
It's incremental: if the savings, and trust, of the French citizens are not impacted by the Panama scandal, they'll go crazy for geo-engineering, which means they might be able to make their African colonies profitable (something that was never achieved).

That sounds like a phenomenal story!

Anyway, I'm getting ahead of myself. Point is, no Panama scandal means less populist politics. This means that France will be more sure of herself and less prone to Witch hunting

So, how does the Dreyfus Affair play out?
We've still got Esterhazy passing military secrets to the Germans, so someone has to get busted.
Anti-semitism and cronyism are still alive and well in the French Army I suspect. So, when does the enlivened state turn from the path it took historically in the cover-up?
Do they punish Dreyfus by association instead, shipping him off to duty in some festering backwater so people will forget about him, such as the Nicaraguan jungle?
 
We're starting from a situation with OTL fleets in spring and summer of '98. That's partly due to wanting to have a unified starting point for readers, partly to see how the ships would perform vs. each other, and partly to avoid fanciful speculation.

USA has 4 new BB plus the archaic Texas.

France is the #2 naval power in the world, but has many other serious commitments in Europe. Previously I reasoned they sent their 5 newest, most homogenous BB to the Caribbean.
That may change as I need to reason out what the French need to maintain their defense in Europe.
Tanc49 pointed out that the French would send enough on paper to defeat the Americans, which makes sense if they can spare the ships.

Germany has 4 new BB and is waiting in the wings for an opportunity to pick up bases as in OTL. I think we've established in the 'Can Spain win the Spanish-American War' thread that's much more likely to occur because of cruisers on station in East Asia than by sending BB for a hail mary throw in the Caribbean.
 
I read in Path Between the Seas that when the USA assessed which country to put the canal through circa 1900, they found that Panama was only quicker because the French had already done so much work there, and because they left so much infrastructure. All things being from scratch, the French would have completed a Nicaragua Canal faster.
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That sounds like a phenomenal story!



So, how does the Dreyfus Affair play out?
We've still got Esterhazy passing military secrets to the Germans, so someone has to get busted.
Anti-semitism and cronyism are still alive and well in the French Army I suspect. So, when does the enlivened state turn from the path it took historically in the cover-up?
Do they punish Dreyfus by association instead, shipping him off to duty in some festering backwater so people will forget about him, such as the Nicaraguan jungle?
As said, I'd butterfly Dreyfus entirely. Same as, if the U.S. were currently less unequal due to some fairly major PoD 20 years ago, Zimmerman wouldn't have caused such a scandal and you wouldn't have Trump as a serious contender.

You would get some espionage but the tension between liberals and the old guard would have played differently.
Dreyfus himself might not have served there. You're talking about a major diplomatic reorientation if the canal opens.


Also, check this thread I had on the transaharian
https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...aharian-railway-is-built-in-the-1880s.341233/
 
You could see crazy projects coming up: the Trans-saharian railway going from Algeria to the Gulf of Guinea, the Chott El-Djerid canal, creating a sea in the Sahara.

That sounds like a phenomenal story!

Jules Verne thought so, too: L'Invasion de la mer (Invasion of the Sea) [1905] his last novel published in his lifetime, is about that project. The scene where the ocean breaks through a little early, for example . . .
 
As said, I'd butterfly Dreyfus entirely. Same as, if the U.S. were currently less unequal due to some fairly major PoD 20 years ago, Zimmerman wouldn't have caused such a scandal and you wouldn't have Trump as a serious contender.

You would get some espionage but the tension between liberals and the old guard would have played differently.
Dreyfus himself might not have served there. You're talking about a major diplomatic reorientation if the canal opens.


Also, check this thread I had on the transaharian
https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...aharian-railway-is-built-in-the-1880s.341233/

OK, thanks!

I read your trans-saharan thread. I don't know much about this, but 3645KM is A LOT of desert to cross. At least when they were building thousands of miles long railroads in the USA and Siberia they gained some economic benefit from exploiting local resources. Water consumption seems like the big stumbling block to long term operations. Before the desert became so huge I believe the Kingdom of Mali maintained a route through this region circa 1400. So, on some level it might work, but the logistics sound like a nightmare.
 
OK, thanks!

I read your trans-saharan thread. I don't know much about this, but 3645KM is A LOT of desert to cross. At least when they were building thousands of miles long railroads in the USA and Siberia they gained some economic benefit from exploiting local resources. Water consumption seems like the big stumbling block to long term operations. Before the desert became so huge I believe the Kingdom of Mali maintained a route through this region circa 1400. So, on some level it might work, but the logistics sound like a nightmare.
Well basically, there were quite a few mining resources in there, even before the discovery of uranium.

You can also grow cotton there, but the big idea is that you could bring more settlers there and/or carry goods way easier, allowing you to then collect more taxes on those heightened revenues...
It also means it will be way easier to move troups around, so you spend less money on it and the troups you have are way more efficient.

Then, yeah, it was super expensive and didn't get built in the end but it was very very seriously considered
 
There are two website's I recommend you use for the ships and gunnery. The first is the gaming site "Seekrieg", which has been extensively researched for about three decades. The rules and stats for edition 4 are available for free download. Seekrieg 5 didn't change the stats of the ships so much as changing how damage, speed, gunnery and such are resolved. The 4th edition is still quite accurate. If your really interested, you can pick up some miniatures and fight these fights out with them. I can provide a list of manf. if you wish. The other site I highly recommend is Navweaps.com. You could also posit your POD there (the fleet action) and see what the denizens of the forum have to say. A few professional historians, some naval professionals, and a lot of educated amateur enthusiasts frequent the site. They CAN however, be dicks, so be prepared. It is still the internet afterall.
HTH Bill

http://seekrieg.com/Seekrieg4InfoPage.htm

http://www.navweaps.com/
 
Then, yeah, it was super expensive and didn't get built in the end but it was very very seriously considered

Nicaragua Canal would be built from 1884-1898 in this TL.
I'm thinking after they know they will successfully finish the Nicaragua Canal the French would start this desert railway project. So perhaps construction would start circa 1891-1893?
If so, how long would it take to build IYO?

I know zero about this beyond what you've said in your thread. So, I'd only have it mentioned by a character in passing elsewhere in the world if I include it.
That is unless you'd like to write a French character in this ATL?

I'm projecting 5 characters in the story: 1 French Army soldier, 1 German Navy officer, 1 US Navy ship, 1 US nurse, 1 inventor.

From talking with you I'm realizing I might not be able to do the French justice.
I was thinking Dreyfus himself would be perfect since we:
A) know a lot about him from OTL
B) he was in the army and had above average intelligence
C) he may have been shuffled around on crummy overseas assignments because of he was Jewish and because of the taint of proximity to the Esterhazy espionage.

Regardless, you know a lot more about him and France than I do so I'd be happy to see you write the French posts.
 
Nicaragua Canal would be built from 1884-1898 in this TL.
I'm thinking after they know they will successfully finish the Nicaragua Canal the French would start this desert railway project. So perhaps construction would start circa 1891-1893?
If so, how long would it take to build IYO?

I know zero about this beyond what you've said in your thread. So, I'd only have it mentioned by a character in passing elsewhere in the world if I include it.
That is unless you'd like to write a French character in this ATL?

I'm projecting 5 characters in the story: 1 French Army soldier, 1 German Navy officer, 1 US Navy ship, 1 US nurse, 1 inventor.

From talking with you I'm realizing I might not be able to do the French justice.
I was thinking Dreyfus himself would be perfect since we:
A) know a lot about him from OTL
B) he was in the army and had above average intelligence
C) he may have been shuffled around on crummy overseas assignments because of he was Jewish and because of the taint of proximity to the Esterhazy espionage.

Regardless, you know a lot more about him and France than I do so I'd be happy to see you write the French posts.
Of you wanna do badass overseas assignments, choose a légionnaire from the Légion étrangère.
Those guys are basically XIXTH century space marines. And they were a corps part of the expeditionary forces.

If you want something more classic I'll check my notes, I have a fairly decent bit on colonial forces in that time period I read and printed a while ago
 
Of you wanna do badass overseas assignments, choose a légionnaire from the Légion étrangère.
Those guys are basically XIXTH century space marines. And they were a corps part of the expeditionary forces.

If you want something more classic I'll check my notes, I have a fairly decent bit on colonial forces in that time period I read and printed a while ago

Légion étrangère sounds awesome!

I'll PM you to coordinate the overall story.
 
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