Some threads on this board, the "America discovered early", and "-late" made me think of a scenario that would see the Americas far more advanced my the middle ages...
What if America was disovered very early, and an attempt to start up trade/colonization was made, but failed? And america slipped out of the known world?
The Phoenicians have been mentioned, because they did things like that, and there was quite a good thread on the Romans, but thats been done. Some other seafaring civilization could have done it as well. The Sea Peoples, the Tartessans was well situated, or the Minoans.
A determined attempt to start a colony, with knowledge of iron, horses, writing, the wheel, shipbuilding, new crops, etc, then abandoned and forgotten would do wonders for precolombian america, I think.
The Minoans, while slightly before the Iron Age, has the advantage of the Thera eruption being quite a handy point to stop supporting a colony, and start looking at their own problems. If they set up a colony on an island in the Caribbean, and used the Caribbean sea and the gulf of mexico as a trading sea like the med.
It seems the Minoans ranged as far afield as Norway. If a ship made it across the atlantic and back, they might send an expedition.
Admittedly, I am not sure what would motivate the effort, since they would not be meeting gold-using civilizations. But sometimes all it takes is a ruler with strong opinion or an auspcious sign by the gods.
A minoan colony in the Caribbean, abandoned about 1600 BC, trading around the mexico-south america-central america would spread out new crops and ideas much more rapidly than the travel up and down the Panama bottleneck.
At the time, iron was known in the mediterranean area, but more valuable than gold due to scarcity. If the massive deposits at the western ends of the great lakes was discovered, look for a lot of trade up and down the mississppi, too.
It doesn't matter if the colony only lasts for a century or two after abandonment by europe. Once their ideas hit the late Olmec, early Maya that was developing at this time, it'd add massively to the knowledge pool of the Americas.
Also, and perhaps more importantly, the establishment of a double-wheel pattern of civilization in precolombian america around the coast would be an enormous accelerator.
Of course, they wont meet the exact same mayas, because there will be a disease shock to the indians which will butterfly a lot of changes in.
But that will also benefit the indians in the long run, becaus a bit more familiarity with old world plagues, and domesicated animals will help later.
Also, if the colony is absorbed rather than wiped out, it will increase the Indians range of MHC-types quite a bit, helping when they encounter new diseases as well.
What do you think?
What if America was disovered very early, and an attempt to start up trade/colonization was made, but failed? And america slipped out of the known world?
The Phoenicians have been mentioned, because they did things like that, and there was quite a good thread on the Romans, but thats been done. Some other seafaring civilization could have done it as well. The Sea Peoples, the Tartessans was well situated, or the Minoans.
A determined attempt to start a colony, with knowledge of iron, horses, writing, the wheel, shipbuilding, new crops, etc, then abandoned and forgotten would do wonders for precolombian america, I think.
The Minoans, while slightly before the Iron Age, has the advantage of the Thera eruption being quite a handy point to stop supporting a colony, and start looking at their own problems. If they set up a colony on an island in the Caribbean, and used the Caribbean sea and the gulf of mexico as a trading sea like the med.
It seems the Minoans ranged as far afield as Norway. If a ship made it across the atlantic and back, they might send an expedition.
Admittedly, I am not sure what would motivate the effort, since they would not be meeting gold-using civilizations. But sometimes all it takes is a ruler with strong opinion or an auspcious sign by the gods.
A minoan colony in the Caribbean, abandoned about 1600 BC, trading around the mexico-south america-central america would spread out new crops and ideas much more rapidly than the travel up and down the Panama bottleneck.
At the time, iron was known in the mediterranean area, but more valuable than gold due to scarcity. If the massive deposits at the western ends of the great lakes was discovered, look for a lot of trade up and down the mississppi, too.
It doesn't matter if the colony only lasts for a century or two after abandonment by europe. Once their ideas hit the late Olmec, early Maya that was developing at this time, it'd add massively to the knowledge pool of the Americas.
Also, and perhaps more importantly, the establishment of a double-wheel pattern of civilization in precolombian america around the coast would be an enormous accelerator.
Of course, they wont meet the exact same mayas, because there will be a disease shock to the indians which will butterfly a lot of changes in.
But that will also benefit the indians in the long run, becaus a bit more familiarity with old world plagues, and domesicated animals will help later.
Also, if the colony is absorbed rather than wiped out, it will increase the Indians range of MHC-types quite a bit, helping when they encounter new diseases as well.
What do you think?
