America purchasing Spanish colonies before 1800

I'm planning a timeline where Thomas Jefferson wins the 1796 election. In his first term I want the United States to purchase Florida, Cuba, and Louisiana from Spain. Such a purchase would definitely guarentee Thomas Jefferson's re-election in 1800. But what are the chances of America convincing Spain to part with all three of these colonies?

I don't think it would be as difficult to get Spain to part with Florida and Louisiana as it would be to seperate Cuba from the Spanish.

So how can this possibly be done?
 
I'm planning a timeline where Thomas Jefferson wins the 1796 election. In his first term I want the United States to purchase Florida, Cuba, and Louisiana from Spain. Such a purchase would definitely guarentee Thomas Jefferson's re-election in 1800. But what are the chances of America convincing Spain to part with all three of these colonies?

I don't think it would be as difficult to get Spain to part with Florida and Louisiana as it would be to seperate Cuba from the Spanish.

So how can this possibly be done?

Fight a war and make it part of the peace settlement (see my sig for ideas if you please). Spain won't sell just to sell. I think more likely that this could happen in a Jeffersonian 2nd term; a strong Franco-American alliance results in an invasion of Florida and an attack on New Orleans and is timed to sync up with the Peninsula war. That is how I see it going down.

Sidenote what is the ETA on this? What are you doing with Burr?
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
IOTL, Jefferson was uncertain whether he had the constitutional authority to purchase Louisiana from France, and it was only the extraordinary circumstances of Napoleon actually offering it to America that made him even consider it. He certainly wouldn't go shopping for territory to buy.

Also, keep in mind that Jefferson's #1 priority above all else was to maintain a balanced budget.
 
First, Spain did not have "colonies", they were all part of Spain proper... well, on paper at least. But it shows what Spain though of the americas, and it would not consider selling anything unless it was on dire straits.

Wich it is not to say than such a sale is ASB, though; but... Florida was an useless swamp, and Louisiana was an useless french swamp, so they might sell then. But Cuba was one of the crown jewells. No way. It would be as likely as selling Cadiz. Impossible without a war than Spain loses decisively, like 1898.
 
Could the US even afford to fight a war in 1796-1800?

That very much depends on whether the US fight a Spain which is distracted by the Coalition wars in Europe, or whether Britain perceives Jefferson as Napoleon's best buddy and decides to teach the Colonies a lesson.

In the first case, I would say they might get to New Orleans and to....whatever places besides St. Augustine there ARE in Florida.

In the second case, it would become nasty. And interesting.
 
What about a joint venture between the US government and some rich Americans purchasing these territories? The investors get most of the land and tax immunity while the US gets income through taxing the non-landowners.

Any chance of that working out?
 
The spanish don't really sell colonies... after all god gave it to them or something

Yeah.
More than that though nobody really sells colonies.
Louisianna was a cunning scheme to get the British to pay for a war against themselves rather than just letting them have Louisianna
The Mexico purchases were at gun point.
Alaska was pointless and soon to be taken by Britain anyway.
The only thing close to a traditional purchase was the Danish virgin islands and that was for a huge sum of money for something Denmark had no need for.

America isn't just going to suddenly buy land out of the blue. You need special circumstances.
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
Could the US even afford to fight a war in 1796-1800?

IOTL, the Adams administation (with Hamilton pulling the strings) built up the navy and put together a fair-sized army. But this required hefty deficit spending, a practice in which Jefferson would have been utterly unwilling to engage.
 

NothingNow

Banned
Spain didn't give a shit about Florida Post 1780 unless it came to the Strait of Florida, which was basically the lifeline of the empire. Florida in and of itself was useful IOTL mainly as a knife to Spain's throat, hence why Spain kept it with the Cutlery.

That very much depends on whether the US fight a Spain which is distracted by the Coalition wars in Europe, or whether Britain perceives Jefferson as Napoleon's best buddy and decides to teach the Colonies a lesson.

In the first case, I would say they might get to New Orleans and to....whatever places besides St. Augustine there ARE in Florida.
:mad:
There's Pensacola, the island of Key West, which was nicknamed "the Gibraltar of the West" IOTL for a reason, and Tampa Bay which is the single best natural harbor in the Gulf Basin.:p
 
There's Pensacola, the island of Key West, which was nicknamed "the Gibraltar of the West" IOTL for a reason, and Tampa Bay which is the single best natural harbor in the Gulf Basin.:p

Plenty of potential, but...


  • Key West in 1800, a tiny base for fishermen from Cuba and the Bahamas
  • Same counts for the only non-Native settlements in Tampa Bay
  • I didn't pay attention to Pensacola , though. Mea culpa.
 

NothingNow

Banned
Plenty of potential, but...


  • Key West in 1800, a tiny base for fishermen from Cuba and the Bahamas
  • Same counts for the only non-Native settlements in Tampa Bay
  • I didn't pay attention to Pensacola , though. Mea culpa.
Honestly, there really wasn't anyone in Tampa Bay until the 1830s, and even then parts of the Bay area were almost entirely unpopulated until the 1880s, but Key West was more or less utilized by the Navy from day one IOTL.
 
Fight a war and make it part of the peace settlement (see my sig for ideas if you please). Spain won't sell just to sell. I think more likely that this could happen in a Jeffersonian 2nd term; a strong Franco-American alliance results in an invasion of Florida and an attack on New Orleans and is timed to sync up with the Peninsula war. That is how I see it going down.


Small point. Since October 1796 Spain had been allied with France against GB and Portugal. So Jefferson would have had to fight on the British side if he wished to conquer Spanish colonies.
 
Small point. Since October 1796 Spain had been allied with France against GB and Portugal. So Jefferson would have had to fight on the British side if he wished to conquer Spanish colonies.

touche sir:D. Well than maybe the Quasi become unquasi and the Americans get physical. I don't like how that would go.

EDIT: and then Jefferson probably wouldn't be POTUS and Hamilton doesn't torpedo the Federalist Party so we have totally gone off the OP.
 
I think this would be part of the 1798 Quasi War going hot.
How would America get Cuba from Spain in 1798 while fighting a war with France?

Your best bet, IMO, is some kind of a deal between Napoleon and Madison to let America snap up Spain's American lands. The question then is what happens with the War of 1812 (if it still happens)?
 
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