America intervenes during the French intervention in Mexico

The French Navy wipes the floor with the USN, while American troops are unable to make any remarkable breakthroughs against French forces holed up in the major cities. It becomes a real bloody mess with no overwhelming 'victory' for either side.
 
The US military in 1865 is a completely different beast then in 1861.

And the idea of French somehow being able take large numbers of US cities and hold them is absolutely ludicrous. Heck, the French army would be outnumbered by more then 2 to one by Union troops, that is somehow assuming they can transport their entire standing army to the United States (a logistic impossibility), and land them.
 
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Razgriz 2K9

Banned
It'll be a stalemate, while the French Navy will utterly curbstomp the US Navy to oblivion, they will never be able to field enough troops (even with Mexico's Royalist forces) to actively take on the U.S. on land. So hypothetically America would still win out I believe.
 
So, we can come to the conclusion that the French in a hypothetical case of war would be put on the defensive pretty quickly by an uneasy alliance of US forces and Juarez forces, while the French navy tries to make short work of the US Navy.

In my opinion both sides have a limited window of opportunity before being forced to give in:

- The Americans are still recovering from the Civil War, so I expect that the intervention is unpopular with the common man. The French navy might not be capable of fully blockading the US, but they will certainly harm trade and commandeer/destroy American vessels. There will be tension between the US expeditionary force and the Mexican resistance.

- The French have no chance of outfighting the US in the America's, but they might break America's will to bleed over Mexico. However, they will be watched by the other Great Powers. Britain was never too enthousiastic about the French adventure and might force France to quit the war or face the Royal Navy, especially if British trade with the US would be blocked. At the same time Bismarck will certainly try to profit from this French distraction and the troops in Mexico might be needed in Europe soon.

Who will outlast who? Thoughts?
 
So, we can come to the conclusion that the French in a hypothetical case of war would be put on the defensive pretty quickly by an uneasy alliance of US forces and Juarez forces, while the French navy tries to make short work of the US Navy.

In my opinion both sides have a limited window of opportunity before being forced to give in:

- The Americans are still recovering from the Civil War, so I expect that the intervention is unpopular with the common man. The French navy might not be capable of fully blockading the US, but they will certainly harm trade and commandeer/destroy American vessels. There will be tension between the US expeditionary force and the Mexican resistance.

- The French have no chance of outfighting the US in the America's, but they might break America's will to bleed over Mexico. However, they will be watched by the other Great Powers. Britain was never too enthousiastic about the French adventure and might force France to quit the war or face the Royal Navy, especially if British trade with the US would be blocked. At the same time Bismarck will certainly try to profit from this French distraction and the troops in Mexico might be needed in Europe soon.

Who will outlast who? Thoughts?

It all depends on your own personal prejudices I suppose.

If you think the entire American Civil War was worthless for military experience, that the US will give up quickly on the war while the French employ Skippy the Alien Space Bat to deploy their entire army and navy with lightening speed while keeping all of Europe out of the war, then yes, French total victory.

If you think the Union emerged from the ACW with the most technologically advanced, largest, and battle hardened army in the world? With men on the Texas border facing French colonial troops spread out over the whole of Mexico? With the French desperately trying to hold on against a now well-supplied and well-armed Juarista army ready to co-operate with the Americans (remember, 75% of the US Army that fought in the Mexican War were Southerners)? With a Prussian Army and strong government in Berlin looking to finish up uniting Germany?(1) With the British fed up with Napoleon's pointless adventurism, and the USA enforcing a Monroe Doctrine that London had quietly supported all along? Then yes, American total victory.

Neither side will see their army in the other's capital.

1) Interesting to see how the Austro-Prussian War would play out in this world.
 

Grimbald

Monthly Donor
Other thoughts..

US merchant shipping was already largely reflagged because of the CS Navy...no real French opportunity there

The RN will keep the sea lanes open, too much trade with the US.

Northern cities had shore batteries. Southern coastal cities were in ruin.

The US fleet was not a blue water navy but was quite good close to shore.

Seward wanted more of North America. He had just bought an ice sheet, at least in the minds of the general public.

A quick fight might reunite the country more quickly.

There were a lot of former Confederate soldiers that needed work.

Seward might have considered NW Mexico and Baja a reasonable price for ridding Mexico of the French.

Mexican feelings had been disregrded before and slavery was no longer a stumbling block to expansion south.

France was European, true, but it had real enemies on its borders.
 
Make Confederate veterans fight there for amnesty. Service guarantees citizenship, bitches!

LOL.

Doubt you'd even need to do that to get ex-Confederates in the fight. IOTL you had Confederate POWs fighting as "Galvanized Yankees" in the Indian wars while the Civil War is ongoing and in even greater numbers in the postwar Indian wars.
 
Other thoughts..

US merchant shipping was already largely reflagged because of the CS Navy...no real French opportunity there

The RN will keep the sea lanes open, too much trade with the US.

Northern cities had shore batteries. Southern coastal cities were in ruin.

The US fleet was not a blue water navy but was quite good close to shore.

Seward wanted more of North America. He had just bought an ice sheet, at least in the minds of the general public.

A quick fight might reunite the country more quickly.

There were a lot of former Confederate soldiers that needed work.

Seward might have considered NW Mexico and Baja a reasonable price for ridding Mexico of the French.

Mexican feelings had been disregrded before and slavery was no longer a stumbling block to expansion south.

France was European, true, but it had real enemies on its borders.

I wonder how the "blue water" French navy would do going up against the "Green water" US navy? I feel the US navy would have done a good job interdicting French supplies going to Vera Cruz operating from bases in Texas or New Orleans.
 
Us did have alot of arty....union and captured..that might've made a difference, less bodies, but very capable.....gatlins......hmmmmmm
 
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