America Be Watching With The Popcorn: A Sino-Soviet War TL

Other way around.
What do you mean, Khrushchev decline didn't he?

~EDIT~
Seems the first time under it was the US proposing it and Soviets declining, and the second time it was the Soviets with the US declining because they were rejected before...
 
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Phantoms. Vladivostok is first. Then work over the Maritime Province. Unsinkable aircraft carrier next door. The PVO is not going to be a problem. The SAMS might be.
Okay. Hope you like doing it six 500-lb bombs at a time, because that's the max that can be done with conventional loadouts while still having the range to get to Vladivostok from just the closest air base in Japan. Any further and you've got to start tanking them up, which is going to be difficult to arrange with the strategic forces on high alert.

Phantoms are also just as occupied with shit in Southeast Asia as every other tactical type in the inventory. And yeah, without any decent standoff munitions SAMs are going to consistently ruin their day.
 

McPherson

Banned
Okay. Hope you like doing it six 500-lb bombs at a time, because that's the max that can be done with conventional loadouts while still having the range to get to Vladivostok from just the closest air base in Japan. Any further and you've got to start tanking them up, which is going to be difficult to arrange with the strategic forces on high alert.

Phantoms are also just as occupied with shit in Southeast Asia as every other tactical type in the inventory. And yeah, without any decent standoff munitions SAMs are going to consistently ruin their day.
Paveway is about the standard issue for a harbor raid. I would prefer ARMs but those do not work too well yet.

AGM-12 Bullpup
AGM-28 Hound Dog
AGM-79 Blue Eye

Not a lot to work with.
 
Paveway is about the standard issue for a harbor raid. I would prefer ARMs but those do not work too well yet.

AGM-12 Bullpup
AGM-28 Hound Dog
AGM-79 Blue Eye

Not a lot to work with.
Paveway isn't available yet; the weapon only became operational in 1972. I'm not sure if Walleyes are available, either, given this would most likely be an Air Force mission and I don't know when Air Force Phantoms were cleared for Walleye I, if they ever were.
 

McPherson

Banned
Paveway isn't available yet; the weapon only became operational in 1972. I'm not sure if Walleyes are available, either, given this would most likely be an Air Force mission and I don't know when Air Force Phantoms were cleared for Walleye I, if they ever were.
My sources say it was ready in 1968 and deployed 1972?
 
Regardless of what happens, Chiang is going to be expanding his domain,.
His propaganda chief Weng Sheng, had brought off defectors with a psychological war program. He gave defectors, a months supply of ice cream and candy. Sheng had a brillant plan to give former cadre provincial governorships and tax free cash, in exchange for rallying.
 
This is very similar to The promise of Joy, allen drurys final novel in the advise and consent series. Regean type democrat orrin knox, fights like hell and the Russians and Chinese get into a war.
 
Of Course L'il Kimmy Couldn't Keep His Hands Off...
Chapter 3.3: Guns, Guns, and More Guns, Nov-Dec 1969.

With much of the Chinese rail network under Soviet control (although gauge differences required supplies to change trains at the border), the Soviets quickly bring supplies to the front-line troops. The occupation was severely harmed by the resistance, although that was ‘mitigated’ by a fleet of heavy bombers and incendiary charges. The Soviets evacuated Vladivostok (the Chinese navy was non-existent), which unfortunately got rid of a major port.
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Soviet Bomber over Manchuria, c. 1969/1970
North Korea decided to take matters into its own hands, and invaded South Korea in December. The north didn’t have any supplies, however, so the surprise attack had much less effect. Hainan also succeeded from China and joined the ROC, mad at the absurd conscription and work requirements.
Soviets paratroopers also landed behind the lines, blowing up bridges and other important infrastructure. Mao knew that if the Soviets behind the front weren’t killed, then his troops would be forced to withdraw from the strong fortifications they had built. His plan to use his own numerical superiority to force the Soviets out of the war by inflicting massive casualties would fail, after which the rest of Manchuria and even Beijing would be open to attack. India was now ‘supporting’ (read: invading China) the Tibetian rebels, which required even more soldiers moved there. The world saw China as weak and were ready to pounce.
Mao’s opportunities for victory were closing fast. He gave the order for the preparing and arming of China’s roughly 250 nuclear weapons. The Soviets did the same. President Richard Nixon raised the DEFCON Level to 3. But for the anti-communist Americans, it was only one thing.
Let the fun begin.
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Frontlines, c. January 1, 1970

Okay folks, that concludes the Capter Three story arc. Chapter four comes out soon, and will be full length.
 
North Korea invading the south? With zero support from its allies? Why? For what reason? They know they’d get squashed like a bug. The Kims are nuts but not complete idiots.

Mao’s gonna need to pull a miracle out of his ass soon if he’s gonna regain some sort of initiative or just halt the enemy advances.
 

McPherson

Banned
North Korea invading the south? With zero support from its allies? Why? For what reason? They know they’d get squashed like a bug. The Kims are nuts but not complete idiots.

Mao’s gonna need to pull a miracle out of his ass soon if he’s gonna regain some sort of initiative or just halt the enemy advances.

The hint is Lake Baikal. Let's see if it happens.
 

McPherson

Banned
Mao’s gonna need to pull a miracle out of his ass soon if he’s gonna regain some sort of initiative or just halt the enemy advances.
Rbec1622880f962c218337bb03fc4671c

Seven Days on a Train: How to Keep Busy on the Trans ...
the Soviet Red Army are not too good when it comes to marching beyond their pre-dumped logistics. They get unhooked from their logtrains and they are screwed.
US-Plans-for-Canadian-Invasion-1.jpg

U.S. Color-Coded War Plans | Author Bill Powers

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See Winnepeg?

Called a CHOKEPOINT.
 

mial42

Gone Fishin'
Would there even be any surviving railway for the Chinese to supply millions of troops against the Soviet Heavy Bomber force.

The Soviets would have Zhukov who has extensive experience in Manchuria against Asiatic opponents.

The Soviets would not attempt massive encirclements like the Germany, it has deep battle doctrine. The extensive number of ww2 veterans of Manchuria would make initial straight up battles one sided for the Soviets.
It's not like the PLA isn't experienced fighting in and around Manchuria, seeing as how they fought the Japanese, the KMT, and the US (in Northern Korea) there and, you know, live there. China's also got a large number of veterans from the Chinese Civil War, the 2nd Sino-Japanese War, and the Korean War (not to mention the Sino-Indian War, but that was smaller scale). The Soviets will be better equipped and probably better organized (since the Cultural Revolution is ongoing; but note that Lin Biao [also an experienced and capable military leader who achieved success in Manchuria during the Civil War] was head of the PLA and so the PLA was relatively stable compared to the parts of Chinese society at this point), but I really don't think this war will be one sided. The Soviet Union is much more powerful then China militarily, but Manchuria is much more important to China than to the Soviet Union. Thus, the Soviets will face some of the same issues as the US in Korea/Vietnam, where they have to keep their best forces in Europe staring at their opposites on the other side of the Iron Curtain, while having to face the cream of the PLA with their second-tier troops. China's also just far too big for the Soviets to occupy even if they are extremely successful, so they have to either (a) hope for a negotiated settlement after winning some battles, (b) go nuclear, or (c) prepare for a forever war; think Afghanistan times 1000 (since the PLA has a strong conventional military as well as being huge and prepared for guerilla warfare). Given how fanatical Mao is, (a) is unlikely if the Soviets expect serious concessions, (b) would be utterly disastrous to the Soviet image on the world stage, and (c) is just a bad option. Their best hope is that Mao gets replaced (not likely during the Cultural Revolution) or dies (but he lasted until 1976 OTL) and gets replaced by someone who is less fanatical.
 

mial42

Gone Fishin'
Wait, why is NK invading SK? They only invaded OTL when they had the support of BOTH the USSR and the PRC, here they're in a much weaker position. Likewise, I don't see Hainan seceding. Was there any actual secessionist sentiment on the island OTL? The PRC has been quite cohesive throughout its 72 year history.

Indian intervention, on the other hand, is eminently plausible, and I think gets the point that Mao is getting worried across by itself.
 

marathag

Banned
Nearly all of Red China's nuclear weapons were gravity bombs at this point.
The DF-2 wouldn't be fielded til 1970.
They never got all the Soviet R-12/ SS-4 Sandal drawings as promised, and were reverse engineering the example that landed in Chinese territory in 1959.
DF-1 was a copy of the Soviet R-2 (improved V-2) that was part of the tech transfer between the USSR and China before relations broke down.
 

marktaha

Banned
This is very similar to The promise of Joy, allen drurys final novel in the advise and consent series. Regean type democrat orrin knox, fights like hell and the Russians and Chinese get into a war.
Frustratingly we were never told the result.
 
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