Alternatives to the V1 & V2 rocket program

[Deleted member 1487]

Partially inspired by this thread:
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=224623

Supposing the Germans don't invest in the ballistic missile program, which cost them $2 billion, which was as much as the Manhattan project, what else could they focus on?
If they decided to go conventional, there were plenty of existing projects to release the scientists, workers, raw materials, etc. to. More tanks, airplanes, artillery, uboats, etc?
What about other research projects? More funding for SAMs?

 

[mowque]

They waste it in more creative ways. The Nazi's didn't exactly have discipline when it came to projects like this. That money is going to be thrown around like water.

 

[Deleted member 1487]

They waste it in more creative ways. The Nazi's didn't exactly have discipline when it came to projects like this. That money is going to be thrown around like water.

Think about what it could have meant for tanks, trucks, or submarines. There were plenty of conventional weapon systems that would have benefited.

 

[BlairWitch749]

Partially inspired by this thread:
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=224623

Supposing the Germans don't invest in the ballistic missile program, which cost them $2 billion, which was as much as the Manhattan project, what else could they focus on?
If they decided to go conventional, there were plenty of existing projects to release the scientists, workers, raw materials, etc. to. More tanks, airplanes, artillery, uboats, etc?
What about other research projects? More funding for SAMs?

They would have made a lot of progress with SAM's if they didn't have 8 different teams working on it and just concentrated their efforts; the existing funding was sufficient to produce something if it wasn't so diffused

 

[dgharis]

They waste it in more creative ways. The Nazi's didn't exactly have discipline when it came to projects like this. That money is going to be thrown around like water.

First, it wasn't entirely wasted; part of the funds went toward AA missiles like Wasserfall and Rheintochter (primitive SAMs) and X-4 (a wire guided AAM) which could have been useful if further developed. Granted, weapons like the V-3 were a complete waste, but some of the money was well spent.

Second, the waste was not limited to the rocketry program; aircraft research (Triebfluegel and http://www.luft46.com/oddities/rammers.html), tanks (Maus), small arms (Krummlauf), and other programs all had their share of nonsensical proposals and designs. So, yes some of the money was going to be wasted regardless.

But SOME of the money might have been put to better uses, such as increased production of useful weapons like the StG 45 and Panzerfaust ...

 

[Deleted member 1487]

They would have made a lot of progress with SAM's if they didn't have 8 different teams working on it and just concentrated their efforts; the existing funding was sufficient to produce something if it wasn't so diffused

Wasn't the problem with the SAMs the guidance system, not the rocket itself?

 

[BlairWitch749]

Wasn't the problem with the SAMs the guidance system, not the rocket itself?

My reading on the subject only involved the funding and extremely diffuse nature of the projects and teams (I seem to recall funding going to the German post office of all places related to this... the post office also got funding for endothermic bombs)

I have no expertise to provide you on the weapons systems themselves and would defer to anyone here who has read up on them

 

[Deleted member 1487]

My reading on the subject only involved the funding and extremely diffuse nature of the projects and teams (I seem to recall funding going to the German post office of all places related to this... the post office also got funding for endothermic bombs)

My understanding about this was that the post office was a cover against spies picking up what was going on with research, which was why it was getting funding for the atomic project.

 

[BlairWitch749]

My understanding about this was that the post office was a cover against spies picking up what was going on with research, which was why it was getting funding for the atomic project.

In the endothermic bomb (ice bomb) case it was actually the post office ... I believe they had a chemist/(probable closet alchemist) turned mailman who sold someone in the procurement office on the idea of an ice bomb (which the Russians captured all the research on, and ran some expensive, but successful experiments with in the 50's)

Otherwise yes the post office was cover

 

[Anaxagoras]

The most effective way for the Germans to have allocated those resources would not have been in other research projects, but simply in turning out more 88s and more Panzer IVs.

 

[phx1138]

So what about many more V-1s? And much sooner? And more accurate?

 

[gladiator8085]

Post office

(I seem to recall funding going to the German post office of all places related to this... the post office also got funding for endothermic bombs)

Isn't that an efficient use of money? After all, doesn't the mail always get thru? In snow, sleet, and darkest night, etc?

 

[DaleCoz]

I think I remember reading that Hitler had been planning to give higher priority to fighter planes, but switched to V2's after a demo, but that's from old and somewhat suspect memory.

 

[dgharis]

So what about many more V-1s? And much sooner? And more accurate?

To what purpose? To blast bits of Greater London while the Red Army and Western Allies grind the Wehrmacht to dust? While the same Western Allies bomb Germany into the Stone Age (an exaggeration, I know, but you get the point)? Surely the resources could be put to better use than that.

 

[BlairWitch749]

So what about many more V-1s? And much sooner? And more accurate?

In even a semi rational war effort the X-4 fly by wire guidence system would have been combined with the V1 to create an effective anti shipping cruise missile (as the US did with them after the war)

 

[Polish Eagle]

So what about many more V-1s? And much sooner? And more accurate?

Unless one can get them supersonic, they'll still be easy targets for any half-competent allied fighter pilot. That whole sixty-meter-rail-launch-pad thing is also a down-side (allied bombers and all that). So...I don't recall, did fighter pilots chalk buzz bombs up as kills in their count to determine who was an ace? If so, more V-1s just means more American and British aces. The only good use of a V-1 is as a high-saturation bombing device where one already has air superiority (American plan to use reverse-engineered V-1s in the invasion of Japan, missile identified as Republic JB-2).

I seem to recall that the alcohol that went into V-2 propellant could have fueled a Fw190 for a hundred flights or so, not to mention the coal-cost of operating the LOX production plants. And then carting liquid oxygen around.

What else could it be spent on? The Luftwaffe is the obvious recipient, and the most efficient (the technical skills of the Von Braun group, at least the guys who built the rocket frames, could be directed to aircraft). 88mm pieces, Panthers, those can all be helpful.

 

[MattII]

An Me 262 fighter and more Ar 234 bombers, along with a smaller Fritz X (one capable of being carried by the Ar 234).

 

[Marja]

A tracked mounting for 80 cm artillery, allowing the piece to be switched from the railroad mounting to something less reliable, with the transmission breaking when the engine doesn't catch fire.

I'm trying to think if there is any way for them to try to build a weapon based on the principles of the Welteislehre.

An anti-aircraft gun in the 80 cm calibre...

Of course these would be utterly useless projects by any measure.

 

[fastmongrel]

The germans should have spent more on the dull boring things like transport, they needed more vehicles the Germans used millions of horses for there infantry and artillery.

The problem is Hitler he liked shiny things that went boom not a new simple standardised truck.

 

[grdja83]

An Me 262 fighter and more Ar 234 bombers, along with a smaller Fritz X (one capable of being carried by the Ar 234).

With not enough engines for them and available engines burning out after 60 minutes of use.