Alternatives to Imperial Federation

[euromellows]

I've recently finished reading John Buchan's excellent autobiography Memory Hold the Door. A good part of the book is devoted to political affairs, and there is an interesting section about his thoughts on Imperial Federation.

He started out in life as being very pro-Imperial Federation and thought it the best model to promote increased cooperation between Britain and the Empire. However as he matured and fulfilled a number of administrative posts in the Empire, he came to believe that Imperial Federation was flawed because it did not allow the respective Dominions/Territories enough room to develop their own unique culture and accouterments. He felt that the Dominions brought a vibrancy and youthfulness to the Empire; something that strengthened Britain, not weakened it. Unfortunately he did not spell out what his alternative would be, but it got me thinking about how this could be pursued.

Where there any other significant proposals ever made? Ideally I'm looking for something in between the Imperial Federation on one extreme and the very loose Imperial Conference on the other. The challenge would be to make this entity still retain strong ties up to the present day - not necessarily political union, but a close working relationship. Ie: multi-lateral agreements to enact Uniform Legislation, or recognition of State officials or judicial rulings etc. I know the Privy Council partially fulfilled this function, but I'm after something more concrete.

 

[Julius Vogel]

Good questions. There are lots of discussions on the topic at the various obvious points, the conferences, federation discussions with various colonies and the like but I get the impression very little was concrete.

This I think reflects the complexity of the problem.

How does one organise things like this?

1. Lots of different interests to be balanced. All with differing power and influence.

2. Cost. A proper federation sounds expensive. An imperial parliament, elections, shipping, administration & decision making processes etc.

3. Effectiveness. Do large democratic federations work well at the point considered? By the 20th century we have the US as the main example, then Canada, then Australia. What can be gleaned from that? Well, I guess my simplistic view is that they all were still quite decentralised at that point with a lot of the power at provincial/state level. Not today's centralised powerful governments.

4. Things sort of worked well enough for most people already. Why change?

 

[Hrvatskiwi]

I think the most important thing is parliamentary representation of the different Dominions in British Parliament, which is kinda difficult with a bicameral, as opposed to unicameral system.

 

[viewcode]

I've recently finished reading John Buchan's excellent autobiography Memory Hold the Door. A good part of the book is devoted to political affairs, and there is an interesting section about his thoughts on Imperial Federation.

He started out in life as being very pro-Imperial Federation and thought it the best model to promote increased cooperation between Britain and the Empire. However as he matured and fulfilled a number of administrative posts in the Empire, he came to believe that Imperial Federation was flawed because it did not allow the respective Dominions/Territories enough room to develop their own unique culture and accouterments. He felt that the Dominions brought a vibrancy and youthfulness to the Empire; something that strengthened Britain, not weakened it. Unfortunately he did not spell out what his alternative would be, but it got me thinking about how this could be pursued.

Where there any other significant proposals ever made? Ideally I'm looking for something in between the Imperial Federation on one extreme and the very loose Imperial Conference on the other. The challenge would be to make this entity still retain strong ties up to the present day - not necessarily political union, but a close working relationship. Ie: multi-lateral agreements to enact Uniform Legislation, or recognition of State officials or judicial rulings etc. I know the Privy Council partially fulfilled this function, but I'm after something more concrete.

I'd like to move away from Dominion participation in Parliament (the legislature in Westminster), and move towards Dominion participation in the Government (the executive in Whitehall). If memory serves, the colonies were administered via the Colonial Office, and occasionally Dominion Prime Ministers were members of the Cabinet (e.g. Curtin in WWII?). Here are the seeds of your solution. Proceed as follows:

• Convert each colony into a Dominion (own Prime Minister, own legislature, but retaining Crown as head of state). Incidentally, this makes the UK a de-facto Dominion
• Create a cabinet post for each Dominion (Secretary of State for India, Secretary of State for Canada, etc)
• Get each Dominion to appoint, howsoever they wish, somebody to fill that post for their Dominion. For the UK, the Prime Minister (or his appointee) is the de-facto Secretary of State for the UK.

Basically, this turns the Imperial Conferences into a single continuous standing committee and makes it part of the executive.

 

[euromellows]

I think the most important thing is parliamentary representation of the different Dominions in British Parliament, which is kinda difficult with a bicameral, as opposed to unicameral system.

Actually I don't think such an entity is likely to have parliamentary representation. If that was the case it would have just been Imperial Federation in everything but name.

My thoughts are something like a Joint Standing Committee with representatives from each of the Dominions. The Government in each Dominion might nominate a representative to speak on their behalf, with an informal agreement the Committee is to be chaired by the United Kingdom. The Committee makes recommendations on Empire-wide matters, can appoint certain officials, and can even undertake investigations into certain matters from time to time. Perhaps it would also allow each Dominion to have a say in the appointment of judicial officers to the Privy Council (which remains the Highest Court of Appeal throughout the Commonwealth). This Committee does not have binding authority; each nation remains sovereign and nominally independent. However the Committee is a useful mechanism to enact mutually agreeable policies across the Commonwealth, and as such each jurisdiction agrees to implement Uniform Legislation that gives effect to proposals agreed (I'm inspired by my own experience in Western Australia where I have appeared before Parliamentary Committees to discuss Uniform Legislation that gives effect to agreements made with the Commonwealth Government).

In time this Committee could evolve into something more - an Imperial Cabinet, an Imperial Executive Council? Any other thoughts?

 

[euromellows]

I'd like to move away from Dominion participation in Parliament (the legislature in Westminster), and move towards Dominion participation in the Government (the executive in Whitehall). If memory serves, the colonies were administered via the Colonial Office, and occasionally Dominion Prime Ministers were members of the Cabinet (e.g. Curtin in WWII?). Here are the seeds of your solution. Proceed as follows:

• Convert each colony into a Dominion (own Prime Minister, own legislature, but retaining Crown as head of state). Incidentally, this makes the UK a de-facto Dominion
• Create a cabinet post for each Dominion (Secretary of State for India, Secretary of State for Canada, etc)
• Get each Dominion to appoint, howsoever they wish, somebody to fill that post for their Dominion. For the UK, the Prime Minister (or his appointee) is the de-facto Secretary of State for the UK.

Basically, this turns the Imperial Conferences into a single continuous standing committee and makes it part of the executive.

Ninja'd

Excellent idea: I like it very much.

 

[Julius Vogel]

Ninja'd

Excellent idea: I like it very much.

Yah, that is more likely to work than an imperial parliament in my view.

One problem though is Britain itself. Now if we take it post Ireland, or even before, you have a very wealthy set of countries that probably should be their own dominions too. That would be unlikely but it might be more stable in the long run.

 

[Some Bloke]

Are we going to run with this as a Timeline?

 

[LawyersGunsMoney]

• Convert each colony into a Dominion (own Prime Minister, own legislature, but retaining Crown as head of state). Incidentally, this makes the UK a de-facto Dominion
• Create a cabinet post for each Dominion (Secretary of State for India, Secretary of State for Canada, etc)
• Get each Dominion to appoint, howsoever they wish, somebody to fill that post for their Dominion. For the UK, the Prime Minister (or his appointee) is the de-facto Secretary of State for the UK.

Would those cabinet positions still be part of the UK government? That would seem like an odd intrusion on it - unaccountable Cabinet members in the UK government. Or am I missing something?

If the only connection is to the sovereign, then membership in the privy council is the only official tie. There will still be unofficial commonwealth clubs, etc. Maybe require each dominion to have a military alliance with the others in its constitution? That's assuming each has a constitution...

 

[viewcode]

Ninja'd

Excellent idea: I like it very much.

Thank you, although I thought yours was better.

Would those cabinet positions still be part of the UK government? That would seem like an odd intrusion on it - unaccountable Cabinet members in the UK government. Or am I missing something?

No, they'd be part of the de-facto Imperial Government. Let's call it something boring, like the Joint Standing Committee on Dominion Liaison,[2] or something really dull. It consists of N people, where N is the number of Dominions (including the UK) and is chaired by the PM. It contains people with titles like "Secretary of State for Australia". It's a subset of the Privy Council, and it decides on matters between the Dominions.

The UK Government (the Cabinet) still exists. It contains people with titles like "Prime Minister", "Chancellor of the Exchequer", "Minister for War". It is also a subset of the Privy Council, and it decides on matters within (the Dominion of) the United Kingdom. It is also chaired by the PM.

You can finesse it (posts like "Foreign Secretary" can be called to both Cabinet and JSCDL?) but that's basically it: two subsets of the Privy Council, (with overlap), two distinct functions, but they look like one. You can even hold the meetings in the same room[1]

It's a momentous change: the UK moves from ruler of empire to just one of many Dominions, but the Crown remains head of state for all. But to the unbureaucratic eye it looks like just another boring committee. Blur it sufficiently, and people won't even notice...


[1] Though as the number of Dominions grow, you'll have to knock down the right-hand wall of the Cabinet Room: I don't think you can fit that many people in there as is.
[2] People tend to forget that this is how governments start. Whether it's the creation of the Irish government after its secession from the UK, the creation of the EEC, the government of the UK evolving from the Privy Council, the UNSC starting in Church House...it's always a small bunch of men in bad suits, shuffling papers and sitting on chairs, with a couple of helpers and drinking tea. 50 years later the helpers are measured in thousands and you need bombs to dislodge them, but that's how it starts.

 

[SlideAway]

It sounds like the model your proposing is a federacy -- something not unlike the Kingdom of the Netherlands.

The problem is getting this to stick in the long-run. The Dominions are not small countries that are dependent on the UK -- they're large countries in their own right which don't necessarily have clear naturally aligned interests with the UK. Are they really going to subsume their own foreign policy and defense to Britain?

Still, some kind of very loose union -- nominally a federation but in practice kind of a NATO+free trade zone/free travel zone alliance may be doable.

 

[Some Bloke]

Maybe start with a Secretary of State for each Dominion. As the colonies gain Responsibility and then Responsible Governmen and space in the Cabinet meeting room becomes an issue create a seperate Commonwealth Council.

 

[abc123]

It sounds like the model your proposing is a federacy -- something not unlike the Kingdom of the Netherlands.

The problem is getting this to stick in the long-run. The Dominions are not small countries that are dependent on the UK -- they're large countries in their own right which don't necessarily have clear naturally aligned interests with the UK. Are they really going to subsume their own foreign policy and defense to Britain?

Still, some kind of very loose union -- nominally a federation but in practice kind of a NATO+free trade zone/free travel zone alliance may be doable.

Yep, something like current EU and NATO organisation. So, Imperial/Commonwealth Parliament, Imperial/Commonwealth Conference of Heads of Government, I/C Executive Council ( with secretaries for various areas, like in European Commision ) etc. Pound as joint currency ( like Euro ), free trade and free travel.

This would only work as "White Commonwealth" agreement.

 

[Simon]

... free trade and free travel.

I'd have to double check but I think I can remember reading that up until fairly late the UK had surprisingly few restrictions on people coming to the UK or working there, especially for those from the Empire or Dominions.

 

[abc123]

I'd have to double check but I think I can remember reading that up until fairly late the UK had surprisingly few restrictions on people coming to the UK or working there, especially for those from the Empire or Dominions.

Indeed. But what I here propose is abolishing any restrictions, like Schengen agreement.