Alternative to the ME-262

Looking a little on the He-162, it is stunning how small the wing was - half the area of the Spitfire's wing, for example. So - proceed with a single engine jet fighter, but give it a decent wing (say 15-17 sq m), even if it has a bit of sweep. The resulting aircraft should still be capable for 800 km/h, while lower wing-loading will mean it is a less of a problem for low-time pilots.
 
Well the He-162's sins were really born out of desperation to get something, anything in the air as quickly as possible and as many as possible. Something like the P.1092 (dating from one year earlier) seems like a much better machine to fly and fight in.
 
For a single jet engine design there was the Project VII Focke Wulf Flitzer but it wasn't designed until September of 1944 though.
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It also had a liquid-propellant rocket built-in beneath the jet engine to give supplementary thrust.
 
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Instead of wasting time on jets could Germany think of anything more reliable and efficent for the Luftwaffe?

Could they possibly just upgrade existing planes or develop a new piston engine plane?

What would you choose to have over the ME-262?

I think 2 things are required

Use veteren pilots as instructors and don't keep them flying as 'superstars' until fatigue and chance claim them

Secondly focus on improving existing designs as much as possible don't try to develop the best aircraft fueled by Angels tears - the good enough is good enough

The DO-335 was fast and very nice to fly apparently, although the engines had overheating issues that were not resolved at wars end - but the main issue was that German test pilots discovered that the 'ejection method' - unfortunately removed the pilot's arms - an issue that was not resolved until the British investigated post war and worked out why.
 
Things is Do-335 is very expensive, and it's only as fast or just a few kph more as the best opposing fighters (Spitfire-XIV, Tempest, P-47 and P-51 models etc.). As some germans put it, in light of the huge numerical disparity german aircraft need a significant performance superiority to have a chance. Jets offered just that.
 
Things is Do-335 is very expensive, and it's only as fast or just a few kph more as the best opposing fighters (Spitfire-XIV, Tempest, P-47 and P-51 models etc.). As some germans put it, in light of the huge numerical disparity german aircraft need a significant performance superiority to have a chance. Jets offered just that.

I agree, piston engines are just more of the same thing that got Germany into trouble in the first place. Besides , jets were the state of the art in 1944, Britain had them and nobody says they were wasting their time.
 
They would have a lot of trouble fuelling any piston aircraft from 1944 onward. Any of the proposed changes would be too little too late to save the refineries from destruction.

Jet Fuel, however, was much easier to produce.
 
Actually, a Luftwaffe version of this, the Ryan Fireball XFR-4

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over 450 mph with a 1425hp radial and a 3400lb thrust turbojet.

Gives you long range and loiter time, but also high speed, and the reliability of the radial for takeoffs and landings.
Ta-152 cheaper and faster
 
I vote for the He-280. It could have been in service a year earlier than the Me 262, in time for the Schweinfurt raids.
The He-178 was an experimental aircraft without any armor, armement, and other goodies.

The Do-335 certainly had good performances but wasn't a dogfighter. P-51D would have eaten it for lunch.
He-280 was faster but had handling problems that made the later model Me-109s look tame.It would have killed more German pilots than allied,that's why the Me-262 won the competition.
 
That WAS the best alternative! With engines based on the DB601 the Germans have been making since the 1930s, with unbeatable speed, long endurance and heavy armament along with large ammunition stowage, the Dornier Do 335 Pfeil (Arrow) should have replaced all efforts spent on jets and rockets and the Me163 and Me262.

Messerschmitt never offered the right aircraft at the right time in sufficient numbers. I don't know why Messerschmitt kept getting the contracts. Politics and connections obviously.
Two engines,you could have 2 long nose Fw-190s for the resources used for one Do-335
 
A long time ago I read a book called The Jet Pioneers. IIRC the RLM wanted the existing aero engine companies to develop gas turbines in the 1930s, but they weren't interested and that put the development of jet engines in Germany back several years.

Is that statement true? If it was true would the Me262 have gone into service a year or two earlier? IIRC the Me262 prototypes were flying with piston engines long before jet engines were available. If it did go into service in 1942 or 43 ITTL it would have had all the problems encountered 2 years later IOTL. However, by 1944 and 45 ITTL these problems might have been cured.
 
Well the He-162's sins were really born out of desperation to get something, anything in the air as quickly as possible and as many as possible. Something like the P.1092 (dating from one year earlier) seems like a much better machine to fly and fight in.
The He-162 had wooden wings and could go over 500 mph, that's just begging for a structural failure.It was equipped with an ejection seat fortunately for the pilot.
 
The Do 335 was a fantastic machine, but it came too late, and then had it's factory blown up...

As for alternatives to jets, you can check the Ta-152. Which also came too late.

Imho, the main problems with a 109/190 sucessor were:
-Hitler's order to suspend all advanced develoment, in July 1940; afaik, most work was prety much frozen for close to a year. That was a critical loss of time and, for me, the biggest problem.
-the problems caused by the massive heat generated by jet engines, which forced the need to develop new metal alloys, which used elements (mainly tungsten, afaik) that were extremely scarce in Germany.
 
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