Alternative settlement in Texas.

Valdemar II

Banned
What alternative groups could be settled in Texas?
I have early read on this board about some German-Mexican colony society, which tried to make (Catholic) Germans emigrate to Texas (in the 1820ties), which more or less failed, could it have succed? Or could we see other European groups emigrate there? Would we still see a Texas revolution if it had been another group emigrating there?
 
What alternative groups could be settled in Texas?
I have early read on this board about some German-Mexican colony society, which tried to make (Catholic) Germans emigrate to Texas (in the 1820ties), which more or less failed, could it have succed? Or could we see other European groups emigrate there? Would we still see a Texas revolution if it had been another group emigrating there?

Well, there was the Adelsverein, the Society for the Protection of German Emigrants to Texas, founded in 1844 to encourage German immigrants to come to Texas. There was a substantial settlement of Germans in Texas, but not enough early on to make a substantial difference.

If you did get an German version of Stephen Austin, subsidized say by clever Mexican policymakers to avoid an overly Anglo population, then you might get a bigger amount of early settlers. Even then, however, there was usually a big difference between the early Anglo settlers of Texas and latter ones. Early ones were content to live under Mexican rule, so long as they thought that rule just and free. As the Mexican government underwent convulsions in the 1830s, the Anglos reacted (and one of the injustices they perceived was the unilateral emancipation of slaves by Anastasio Bustamante in 1829/30). However, the Texian Revolt in 1835-6 was one of a number of revolts from the central government when Santa Anna suspended the Constitution of 1824.

Having a greater number of a different national group may be interesting, though. There was a substantial number of Irish settlers in and around San Patricio, who's actions reflect a notion of being separate from the Tejanos and Anglos leading the revolt. It is important to note, though, that there were a good number of Tejenao (i.e. Mexican) supporters of the Texan Revolution (Juan Seguin was Vice President of Texas), but the Anglos outnumbered them in terms of overall population (30K to 5K IIRC).

And of course if Texas does revolt (which is essentially predicated on the actions of the Mexican central government) and if it does win its independence, then it probably still has the finanical trouble that it did OTL. It will need heavy foreign assisstance or to seek annexation by the US. US politics play an important role here and it's not implausible that if Texan society is seen as a mix of German, Irish, Anlgo, and Tejano influeces, that the Nativist groups in the US in the 1840s and '50s may combine with Free Soilers to oppose Annexation. If you avoid Annexation, then you also avoid the influx of Anglo settlers that came to Texas in the 1850s.
 
If no Annexation by the US, You could have a lot of Irish in the late 1840's if you can Have Texas give some incentives.
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
Well, there was the Adelsverein, the Society for the Protection of German Emigrants to Texas, founded in 1844 to encourage German immigrants to come to Texas. There was a substantial settlement of Germans in Texas, but not enough early on to make a substantial difference.

As a resident of Central Texas, I beg to differ with the contention that German immigration did not make a substantial difference. The German immigration of the mid-19th Century left a permanent mark on this entire region. Politically, the Germans were anti-slavery and pro-Union, which had a significant impact on the region during the Civil War. In terms of religion, many of the German communities were specifically established as havens for freethinkers, which has been credited for causing Central Texas to be generally more tolerant of religious dissent than the rest of Texas. And other evidence can be found in everything from the names of towns to the fact that some of the best German food and German-style beer outside Germany can be had in this area.
 

Jasen777

Donor
I assume Nicomacheus meant that there wasn't significant enough German settlement of Texas before the Revolution to impact the Anglos rebelling. That seems true enough. There was of course considerable German settlement, especially after the Revolution.

Alternate settlement may mean that the settlers are less likely to rebel, as they may be more satisfied with the large de facto independence they have due to the distance from Mexico City. And they will be less eager to join the U.S. which of course was a major motivator for the Revolution.

This could also lead to more filibustering expeditions from the U.S. into Texas, ala the Long Expedition.
 
As a resident of Central Texas, I beg to differ with the contention that German immigration did not make a substantial difference. The German immigration of the mid-19th Century left a permanent mark on this entire region. Politically, the Germans were anti-slavery and pro-Union, which had a significant impact on the region during the Civil War. In terms of religion, many of the German communities were specifically established as havens for freethinkers, which has been credited for causing Central Texas to be generally more tolerant of religious dissent than the rest of Texas. And other evidence can be found in everything from the names of towns to the fact that some of the best German food and German-style beer outside Germany can be had in this area.

Shiner Boch + New Braunfels + Schlitterbaun = He speaketh the truth!
 
Also I'm not sure what more ethnic groups you could get into Texas. The Dutch had a big presecne around the mouth of the Sabine, the Germans in Central Texas, Irish and Polish mixed in randomly, obvious large Anglo-American clusters. I think there was a Swedish community near present day Dallas. Maybe you could mix some Russians and Slavs in but they wouldn't be in big enough numbers to have a marked difference on larger history.

Maybe some Mediterranean Europeans but Portuguese wouldn't be traveling in large numbers to a former Spanish colony. The Spanish wouldn't be going there for obvious reasons. Maybe Italians and French, but I'm pretty sure there was a small French presense in Texas too. Italians maybe?
 

Valdemar II

Banned
Also I'm not sure what more ethnic groups you could get into Texas. The Dutch had a big presecne around the mouth of the Sabine, the Germans in Central Texas, Irish and Polish mixed in randomly, obvious large Anglo-American clusters. I think there was a Swedish community near present day Dallas. Maybe you could mix some Russians and Slavs in but they wouldn't be in big enough numbers to have a marked difference on larger history.

Maybe some Mediterranean Europeans but Portuguese wouldn't be traveling in large numbers to a former Spanish colony. The Spanish wouldn't be going there for obvious reasons. Maybe Italians and French, but I'm pretty sure there was a small French presense in Texas too. Italians maybe?


I'm interested in alternative settlement before Texan independents. So that Texas doesn't end up as part of USA (at least not in the way it did in OTL)
 
As a resident of Central Texas, I beg to differ with the contention that German immigration did not make a substantial difference. The German immigration of the mid-19th Century left a permanent mark on this entire region. Politically, the Germans were anti-slavery and pro-Union, which had a significant impact on the region during the Civil War. In terms of religion, many of the German communities were specifically established as havens for freethinkers, which has been credited for causing Central Texas to be generally more tolerant of religious dissent than the rest of Texas. And other evidence can be found in everything from the names of towns to the fact that some of the best German food and German-style beer outside Germany can be had in this area.

I assume Nicomacheus meant that there wasn't significant enough German settlement of Texas before the Revolution to impact the Anglos rebelling. That seems true enough. There was of course considerable German settlement, especially after the Revolution.

Jasen is quite right. I meant German settlement before 1835, of which there was some, but not enough to cause significant political issues during the Texas Revolution. Anaxagoras is quite right about the extent of German influence in Central Texas though, which I myself can attest having enjoyed Fredericksburg, New Braunfelds, and Schlitterbahn as a young kid on family vacations. It's like a whole other country, within a whole other country.;)
 
Quakers
Escaped/freed slaves
A VERY successful Scottish colony in Panama/Darien expands northward and the Scots colonize Texas?
 
I think it's possible to have French settlement in Texas (probably renamed le Techas); however, it would probably either mean that a good deal of Texas would have to be part of Louisiana or (if France loses Louisiana as in OTL) as part of some sort of sympathy deal when the Spanish got Louisiana - in other words, you get Louisiana in return for us sending Frenchmen to your empire. The most likely people from such an effort to cross the Atlantic would be:

*Bretons
*Normans
*Basques (if there weren't enough in Mexico already)
*Poitevins
*Provençal people (just don't call them Catalans)
among others. I'm trying to think of the areas of people that sent people to New France in the first place, since these would be the same areas most receptive to emigration (even though technically all of France was affected by emigration).
 

Valdemar II

Banned
I think it's possible to have French settlement in Texas (probably renamed le Techas); however, it would probably either mean that a good deal of Texas would have to be part of Louisiana or (if France loses Louisiana as in OTL) as part of some sort of sympathy deal when the Spanish got Louisiana - in other words, you get Louisiana in return for us sending Frenchmen to your empire. The most likely people from such an effort to cross the Atlantic would be:

*Bretons
*Normans
*Basques (if there weren't enough in Mexico already)
*Poitevins
*Provençal people (just don't call them Catalans)
among others. I'm trying to think of the areas of people that sent people to New France in the first place, since these would be the same areas most receptive to emigration (even though technically all of France was affected by emigration).

Yes quite likely, but this needs to before the French Revolution.

After the French Revolution (and the Napoleons Wars) Germans especially Rhinelanders and Swabians is the most likely group, with Flemish as the second most likely.
 
Yes quite likely, but this needs to before the French Revolution.

You could even have after the Revolution (if possible), by using Mexico/Texas as a dumping ground for French "undesirables" (whatever that is, I leave up to you) instead of Devil's Island.
 
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