Alternative People to take the place of Napoleon
- Thread starter Gurroruo
- Start date
this man
Thomas-Alexandre Dumas one of Bonaparte's contemporariness and a remarkable character in his own right
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas-Alexandre_Dumas
Thomas-Alexandre Dumas one of Bonaparte's contemporariness and a remarkable character in his own right
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas-Alexandre_Dumas
The men Napoleon seems to have thought of as potential rivals were mainly Louis- Charles Desaix, whose wiki article says almost nothing about his personality but seems to have been a rather more sociable, outgoing, optimistic type than Napoleon- less of a misanthrope, anyway. Killed at Marengo, fortunately for Napoleon:
and his brother in law, Charles Emmanuel Leclerc, who was another mostly upbeat type, who he distrusted so much he had him sent to the unpopular job of fighting the Haitians and die of yellow fever.
Net famously suffered from tunnel vision on the battlefield; not having a good grasp of the situation around the fight, nor of what battles he ought to pick- he was an operational commander, not a strategist.
The best of the Marshalate were early on, Massena, who would be a disaster as a civil leader having more than a touch of the kleptomaniac about him, and a nepotist to boot; later eclipsed by Davout, who was almost the opposite, rigidly, scrupulously honest, but ruthless, hard- handed, demanding, and famously dour, miserable and grumpy. Even Napoleon was better than the choice between a thief and a witchfinder- general.
and his brother in law, Charles Emmanuel Leclerc, who was another mostly upbeat type, who he distrusted so much he had him sent to the unpopular job of fighting the Haitians and die of yellow fever.
Net famously suffered from tunnel vision on the battlefield; not having a good grasp of the situation around the fight, nor of what battles he ought to pick- he was an operational commander, not a strategist.
The best of the Marshalate were early on, Massena, who would be a disaster as a civil leader having more than a touch of the kleptomaniac about him, and a nepotist to boot; later eclipsed by Davout, who was almost the opposite, rigidly, scrupulously honest, but ruthless, hard- handed, demanding, and famously dour, miserable and grumpy. Even Napoleon was better than the choice between a thief and a witchfinder- general.
Massena is the most likely to be approached as a leader in 1799, having just handed the Russians a massive defeat in the St. Gotthard Pass, after they'd chewed through two other French armies. He's the Hero of the Moment
It is possible a late-Royalist like Doumeriez who lost a political struggle might have taken charge at a later date.
One forgotten by the history: Charles André Merda.
He participated in the arrest of Maximilien Robespierre, during which he has fired the pistol shot which broke jaw of the «Incorruptible», proclaimed "tyrant" from the Convention. He transformed his surname in «Meda» because in italian "merda" (in french "merde", both from latin "merda") in english is equivalent to "shit", surname certainly not suitable for an hero and militar of the French Revolution and of the First Empire.
He participated in the arrest of Maximilien Robespierre, during which he has fired the pistol shot which broke jaw of the «Incorruptible», proclaimed "tyrant" from the Convention. He transformed his surname in «Meda» because in italian "merda" (in french "merde", both from latin "merda") in english is equivalent to "shit", surname certainly not suitable for an hero and militar of the French Revolution and of the First Empire.
Is Ney really good enough at the political stuff to make it work?
My choice would be Bernadotte. He had a taste for intrigue, though he was only decent militarily. Moreau's another good choice.
That said, without Napoleon I doubt we end up with a military leader period.
I don't think so about Ney. Politically Ney was indecisive and often tormented by decisions. This was actually one of the excuses Ney's wife gave to Louis XVIII when she asked for pardon for Ney going over to Napoleon during the Hundred Days.
I suppose there could have risen a Napoleon-like personality but it the outcome would have been very different. Many of the top generals were hard-core revolutionaries, the kind who would have have never made a deal like the Concordat with the Pope that brought religious peace and on the other side there were crypto-Royalists who would have planned either a return to the old regime but at the least not a continent-wide French hegemony toppling thrones and the spreading of the Revolution. Napoleon was perfectly placed between two poles.
Last edited:
trurle
Banned
To summarize candidates
* André Masséna - The Man who Froze Russians
* Michel Ney - Horse-mounted Kamikaze
* Thomas-Alexandre Dumas - Mulatto Subduer of Egypt
* Jean Victor Marie Moreau - a Crusher of Germans
* Louis Desaix - The Turner of the Tide
* Charles Leclerc - the Killer of Negros
* Lazare Hoche - Wind-blown Eliminator of Believers
* Charles François Dumouriez - The Last Royalist
* Charles-André Merda - The Terror Terminator
* Jean-Baptiste Bernadotte - Elected King of Sweden
* André Masséna - The Man who Froze Russians
* Michel Ney - Horse-mounted Kamikaze
* Thomas-Alexandre Dumas - Mulatto Subduer of Egypt
* Jean Victor Marie Moreau - a Crusher of Germans
* Louis Desaix - The Turner of the Tide
* Charles Leclerc - the Killer of Negros
* Lazare Hoche - Wind-blown Eliminator of Believers
* Charles François Dumouriez - The Last Royalist
* Charles-André Merda - The Terror Terminator
* Jean-Baptiste Bernadotte - Elected King of Sweden
Most of the names that have been mentioned did not have the abilities to fill the role. Especially not Ney, Dumas, Desaix, Hoche, or most of the future empire marshalls.
To find a realistic alternative, one has to take into consideration the man who was behind the plot to upset the Directorate regime : Sieyes.
So you can discard Moreau or Bernadotte because their political sympathies made them unfit to Sieyes' point of view.
I would rather go for someone like Massena, Leclerc or Soult.
One forgotten by the history: Charles André Merda.
He participated in the arrest of Maximilien Robespierre, during which he has fired the pistol shot which broke jaw of the «Incorruptible», proclaimed "tyrant" from the Convention. He transformed his surname in «Meda» because in italian "merda" (in french "merde", both from latin "merda") in english is equivalent to "shit", surname certainly not suitable for an hero and militar of the French Revolution and of the First Empire.
It means Shit in Catalan.
guinazacity
Banned
Emperor Dumas has a nice ring to it.
He would terrify the european monarchs a hundred times more, i reckon, and be the star of all black liberation movements until the 20th century.
He would terrify the european monarchs a hundred times more, i reckon, and be the star of all black liberation movements until the 20th century.
emmanuel joseph sieyes is another way to go. While not a military man, he probably the most famous theoretician of the revolution (having written what is the third estate ?), was the statesman behind the Consulate and was outmaneuvered from the top post due to his choice of political puppet to complete his triumvirate : general napoleon. His original choice was Joubert who appeared to have been more moldable but he died before the coup.
Anaxagoras
Banned
I disagree. I would rank Davout, Soult, Massena, Lannes and perhaps a few others as better than Ney.
Wouldn't it be crazy if Bernadotte and Nappy essentially switched places?