Alternative Leyte

Yes, I realise that it has been done to death, but I have often thought that it would be an interesting excercise to speculate as to what would have happened at Leyte if the IJN had made some modifications to their post 1930 Circle 1 to Circle 4 plan construction plans, even within their existing budgets plus had not pursued so many worthless rebuilds during the period of the war itself. A more productive outcome would have been many more escorts being built, but, aside from this, which is an impossibility before the war due to the personalites and attitudes of the IJN. Taking these changes into account:

Shinano complted as a BB with no slow down in production
4th Yamato class never laid-second Tahio class CV bult instead
No 4th Katori class training cruiser or Ibuki class CA's laid down. Instead 4th Agano class laid much earlier and 2nd Oyodo class laid and completed.
Instead of rebuilding the Ise class BB's use the resources to lay down much earlier 4 more Atkizuki class DD's that should be ready by October 1944.

Change the disposition of forces with Shima's fleet deployed in it's entirety in the operation, adding 1 CA, 3 CL and 4DD's to the order of battle, using some of the CVL's in place of these ships for transport duties.

REvised order of battle would then be:

Nirishima/Shima:

Add Ise, Hyuga, Aoba, 3CL and 4DD.

Ozawa:

Deduct Chitose, Chiyoda, add Amagi, Unryu.

Kurita:

Add Shinano as a BB:eek:, a Tahio class CV with a scraped up air group(this would have attracted more air attacks than Musashi which may be afloat for the next combat with this CV sunk instead), 1 Agano class CL and 4 Atkizuki class DD.

Of course to add more interest again, you would need would need a less timid and more together commander than Kurita was. It still results in an IJN defeat, as this is inevitable, but would these force changes allow the IJn forces to eliminate and break through Taffy 3 and at least get near the transports(themselves well guardded by DD divisions). This by itself would have finished Bull Halseys career.

Of course this scenario may well have involved the elimination of most of Kiuritas fleet at the hands of both the fast carriers and the fast battleships of "Ching" Lee. :D
 
I'm curious about a scenario where a battleship sneaks in and blasts a carrier to bits. Battleships should be used for battle. That's what they're for!

Also, what is the deal with Japan being unable to deal with small but persistent allied forces? Laffy, Kokoda trail, Wake (they finally took it), that thing in India... It's just weird if you ask me. It's like their leaders were really timid and lost their nerve in a jam.
 
Last edited:

sharlin

Banned
The Americans had been hitting the IJN with constant air strikes, Admiral Kurita had already had one flagship sunk under him that week, basically the Japanese were rattled but when they saw Taffee there was an ID mixup where the Japanese thought they had found fleet carriers and so to attack as quickly as possible to prevent them being picked off by aircraft and escorts the basic order was 'CHAAAAAAAAAAAAARGE!' instead of forming a proper battle line.

The japanese attacked as a mob, squadrons didn't for the most part stick together and they all just went flat out towards the carriers with seemingly the goal of killing the carriers regardless of the actions of the escorts.

The IJN ships were spotted at a great distance and that allowed the CVEs time to turn and run at their best speed, the torpedo attacks on the battleships, especially the Yamato who was not the most nimble of ships forced them to make large circles to avoid the torpedoes and that bought more time. Also it appears that Japanese gunnery suffered poorly from either lack of practice or training as their gunnery that day was bloody aweful.

Re the revised Order of battle either way the force that ran into the American gun line was forced through a meat grinder before they reached the USN Battleships, constant torpedo attacks from every angle at night beyond the effective range of Japanese searchlights and their radar was near useless as it was picking up return echos from the land rather than the american ships. For Nirishima's force to stand a chance against that attack they would have to attack in daylight which would mean those old battleships would be exposed to air attacks and the old BBs were not built to take that. With three Yamatos coming at them the USN might not have diverted its main force away to go after Ozawa and instead focused on killing the more immediate threat.
 
Last edited:
I'm curious about a scenario where a battleship sneaks in and blasts a carrier to bits. Battleships should be used for battle. That's what they're for!

Also, what is the deal with Japan being unable to deal with small but persistent allied forces? Laffy, Kokoda trail, Wake (they finally took it), that thing in India... It's just weird if you ask me. It's like their leaders were really timid and lost their nerve in a jam.

The fleet commanders seemed at times afraid to lose ships and then go home and report to the emperor. There is more than one occasion where they withdrew from a battle that they very likely could have won, such as the Komandorskis.
 
Top