Alternative International Airports II

Masked Grizzly · Sep 28, 2017

Carrying on from the original thread, which locations or airfields had the potential to grow into International Airports in better circumstances?

For example in London and the UK, there were AFAIK the following OTL proposals.

Thames Estuary (including Maplin Sands / Foulness)
Fairlop Airport (via RAF Fairlop)
Blackbushe Airport
Gravesend Airport
Cublington Airport
Nuthampstead Airport
Thurleigh Airport
Willingale Airport (via RAF Chipping Ongar) - A little known shelved proposal for London's 3rd Airport located between Chipping Ongar and Chelmsford, there were also plans to upgrade the Central Line's Epping to Ongar branch and extend it to the Airport had it been built. - https://www.flightglobal.com/FlightPDFArchive/1979/1979 - 1789.PDF

Dan · Sep 28, 2017

Huntingdon, Cambridgeshire, there was a plan to convert RAF Alconbury into a freight airport after the USAF Finished flight operations there. However, the plan was blocked by local villagers in the planning stage.
Had it gone ahead, I think it wouldn't have been long until someone like Ryan Air or Easy Jet started running flights into Europe from there.

1940LaSalle · Sep 28, 2017

This isn't exactly alternate, but kind of a rueful evaluation: when one considers Boston's Logan International and its location, hung out into Massachusetts Bay as it is, one wonders why it wasn't built elsewhere. Then one steps back and considers how the land on the remaining sides of Boston were developed long before commercial aviation, and one is forced to the conclusion that barring an excessively long ground trip, that's the best location of a really bad lot. Unless one considers smaller US airports (conventional wisdom has it that the top of a modest mountain was taken off and graded for the airport at Charleston, WV), Logan is certainly in the running for less than ideal siting.

Lost the game · Sep 28, 2017

Northeast Philadelphia Airport could have been enlarged and made the primary airport in Philadelphia, considering nearly the entire Northeast was undeveloped until the 1950s and 60s.

Then later, if the United States were more serious about a high speed rail at least in the Northeast US, where it makes sense, a HSR link with New York would have cut the travel time from Penn Station to Northeast Philly down to about 45 minutes to an hour, about the same as from Penn Station to JFK by subway. Northeast Philly could then thus have become a feeder airport for NYC just like Newark and LaGuardia

baldipaul · Sep 28, 2017

Wasn't there a proposal about ten - fifteen years ago for a new airporport between Rugby and Northampton on the WCML.

Devvy · Sep 28, 2017

baldipaul said:
Wasn't there a proposal about ten - fifteen years ago for a new airporport between Rugby and Northampton on the WCML.

Wasn't "quite" on the WCML - but close enough(!), and it was originally back in 1971 as a result of the Roskill Commission. Look on Google Maps for Cublington - you can see it just to the west of Leighton Buzzard.

It would have been London's premier international gateway, situated nicely just outside London, big 4 runway airport, probably with several terminals as the years went by. Well connected via people mover to WCML, which connected London and Birmingham easily. Would largely replace Heathrow in the long term, relegating Heathrow to the same role that City airport plays now - short haul to major business destinations and little more - due to flight restrictions and local opposition. Probably a nice wide anti-development corridor around the runways and noise corridors to prevent the same from happening. Gatwick would probably remain as a more tourist/charter orientated airport, Luton and City airports probably killed off.

Theoretical_TJ · Sep 28, 2017

I've got one for Texas:

Hill Country International Airport.

Built in San Marcos halfway between Austin and San Antonio, 40 miles away from each. Modeled after Dallas Ft Worth International as a bridge between two Metro areas.

A high speed 80 mile rail conduit links San Antonio, Austin and the airport. The 150 mph trains get persons from downtown to the other city in half an hour and 15 minutes to the airport.

Roches · Sep 28, 2017

Toronto's airport, Pearson, is quite far from the city centre, enough that it actually uses the airport code for Malton, one of Toronto's suburbs: YYZ. The city has several other airports, particularly Downsview, a former air force base in the north central part of the city. Given an early enough decision, Downsview could have become Toronto's main airport. Toronto's subway has a stop at Downsview (since the 90s), while a rail link between the airport and the city centre has only been built within the last few years.

Pearson is both too close and too far from the city centre, though, because it's still inside the built-up area, meaning heavy traffic. A more distant airport like Buttonville to the north of the city would almost be easier to access by road and would have necessitated an earlier, faster rail link.

Simon · Sep 29, 2017

Devvy said:
Gatwick would probably remain as a more tourist/charter orientated airport, Luton and City airports probably killed off.

No great loss with Luton closing, City might be rather more contentious though.

Spens1 · Sep 29, 2017

Before settling on the current Badgery's Creek site, the RAAF base in Richmond was touted as a potential site i do believe (only problem is its 60km's from the city). Even worse, Wilton was considered as one (100km's away).

http://westernsydneyairport.gov.au/...ny-Modelling_of_alternative_airport_sites.pdf

All outlined in this report.

Not really an alternate airport but Wellcamp Airport near Toowoomba is being touted as a potential 3rd international airport for South East Queensland (who it will serve idk, because the airport is 110km's west of ipswich).

TheMann · Sep 29, 2017

Roches said:
Toronto's airport, Pearson, is quite far from the city centre, enough that it actually uses the airport code for Malton, one of Toronto's suburbs: YYZ. The city has several other airports, particularly Downsview, a former air force base in the north central part of the city. Given an early enough decision, Downsview could have become Toronto's main airport. Toronto's subway has a stop at Downsview (since the 90s), while a rail link between the airport and the city centre has only been built within the last few years.

Pearson is both too close and too far from the city centre, though, because it's still inside the built-up area, meaning heavy traffic. A more distant airport like Buttonville to the north of the city would almost be easier to access by road and would have necessitated an earlier, faster rail link.

Downsview hasn't got the room for development from any time that you could bypass Pearson. Pearson is the best bet unless you want to build the Pickering Airport that has been a political football around here since the 1970s as far as room goes, and its not out of the realm of possibly at all that a subway can go to Pearson - the Eglinton subway that was cancelled in 1995 would have gone to Renforth, and its not that far of a stretch to make it go from there to Pearson Airport.

Nick P · Sep 29, 2017

Masked Grizzly said:
For example in London and the UK, there were AFAIK the following OTL proposals.

Willingale Airport (via RAF Chipping Ongar) - A little known shelved proposal for London's 3rd Airport located between Chipping Ongar and Chelmsford, there were also plans to upgrade the Central Line's Epping to Ongar branch and extend it to the Airport had it been built. - https://www.flightglobal.com/FlightPDFArchive/1979/1979 - 1789.PDF

WHAT?! What..? I know that area well, I have even taken the Scouts on hikes over the old WW2 airfield!

If that had gone ahead my life would be so much different. I might even be working there now. The Central Line might well have been converted back to a main line from the Underground to enable higher capacities and speeds. The A414 would be a far higher quality road or the M12 might have been built with a new route.

Masked Grizzly · Sep 30, 2017

Nick P said:
WHAT?! What..? I know that area well, I have even taken the Scouts on hikes over the old WW2 airfield!
If that had gone ahead my life would be so much different. I might even be working there now. The Central Line might well have been converted back to a main line from the Underground to enable higher capacities and speeds. The A414 would be a far higher quality road or the M12 might have been built with a new route.

With the Central Line they could have either extended it to Willingale Airport (being the northeast equivalent of the Piccadilly Line to Heathrow) or terminated it at Loughton with another main line route taking over, regardless the airport will receive more main line rail links both out of practicality as well as to ease stress on the Central Line and may even effect the development of the Victoria Line or another Line.

As for additional rail links it is possible that the Chingford Line would be extended to Willingale via Loughton while another route to the Airport would be established from Cheshunt or Waltham Cross (by Waltham Abbey) via Epping to Chelmsford (possibly originating from Liverpool Street or Stratford), additional routes could be from Shenfield (possibly via Crossrail) to either Stansted / Cambridge (maybe via Great Dunmow).

The M12 was always envisioned as joining the A12 at some point whether it was to Brentwood, Chelmsford or Maplin though it is likely there would be a route to Willingale that joins the A12, not sure how many further North such a route could go though.

Nick P · Sep 30, 2017

Masked Grizzly said:
With the Central Line they could have either extended it to Willingale Airport (being the northeast equivalent of the Piccadilly Line to Heathrow) or terminated it at Loughton with another main line route taking over, regardless the airport will receive more main line rail links both out of practicality as well as to ease stress on the Central Line and may even effect the development of the Victoria Line or another Line.

I see this change..... The eastern Central Line would only go from Stratford-Leyton-Leytonstone-Hainault Loop-Woodford. The mainline would run again from Liverpool Street to Epping via Stratford-Snaresbrook-Woodford and out to the new London Airport. There could well be a further extension to Chelmsford to attract the East Anglia passengers.

Running the Chingford Line through Epping Forest will attract more protestors than the Newbury Bypass. They had enough trouble with the M25 which was intended to run much further south than it is today and even then they had to include a tunnel so that Epping cricket pitch could be replaced.

Masked Grizzly · Sep 30, 2017

Nick P said:
I see this change..... The eastern Central Line would only go from Stratford-Leyton-Leytonstone-Hainault Loop-Woodford. The mainline would run again from Liverpool Street to Epping via Stratford-Snaresbrook-Woodford and out to the new London Airport. There could well be a further extension to Chelmsford to attract the East Anglia passengers.

Running the Chingford Line through Epping Forest will attract more protestors than the Newbury Bypass. They had enough trouble with the M25 which was intended to run much further south than it is today and even then they had to include a tunnel so that Epping cricket pitch could be replaced.

Thanks to the A12 at Leyton / Leytonstone there is no possibility of any mainline train using the Epping route from Stratford towards Willingale Airport, the only alternative to avoiding the A12 essentially utilizes the old Stratford to Chingford Route via Lea Bridge.

However if the Chingford Line utilizes certain aspects of Crossrail 2 there is the possibility of a sub-surface section between Chingford and Loughton if necessary, besides the Chingford Line was never meant to terminate at Chingford in OTL anyway though there was no money to extend it further.

Either that or an earlier POD where the campaign to save Epping Forest fails allowing the proposed extension of the Chingford Line to High Beach or Loughton to go ahead, making it easier for further extensions.

Also any ATL train routes that end up running parallel on part of the M12 before heading towards Willingale Airport somewhere between Fairlop and Havering-atte-Bower, would likely require a no-Green Belt POD so that villages along the potential route towards the Airport would grow to become large towns to make the route more viable.

Nick P · Oct 1, 2017

Masked Grizzly said:
Thanks to the A12 at Leyton / Leytonstone there is no possibility of any mainline train using the Epping route from Stratford towards Willingale Airport, the only alternative to avoiding the A12 essentially utilizes the old Stratford to Chingford Route via Lea Bridge.

The A12 at Leyton wasn't planned until the late-80s and built in the mid-90s. If they were to provide a direct rail link to the new Airport from the early 80s this is the right time and route. You leave the old Leyton/Leytonstone station and line to the Underground and where todays A12 is you provide an above ground line running past and joining on after Snaresbrook. They could even run a dedicated express line with limited stops like the Stansted Express.

This of course means joined up planning on the part of the GLC, Essex County Council, London Underground, British Rail, Highways Agency and British Airports Authority.... A greater POD than any butterflies could manage!

Masked Grizzly · Oct 1, 2017

Nick P said:
The A12 at Leyton wasn't planned until the late-80s and built in the mid-90s. If they were to provide a direct rail link to the new Airport from the early 80s this is the right time and route. You leave the old Leyton/Leytonstone station and line to the Underground and where todays A12 is you provide an above ground line running past and joining on after Snaresbrook. They could even run a dedicated express line with limited stops like the Stansted Express.

This of course means joined up planning on the part of the GLC, Essex County Council, London Underground, British Rail, Highways Agency and British Airports Authority.... A greater POD than any butterflies could manage!

Agree it would entail an greater POD.

Personally would not sacrifice the Epping branch from Leytonstone for a rail link to Willingale Airport rather would seek to reduce the branch to Loughton and implement some Zone changes, so another route (from both Liverpool Street and Stratford via Hall Farm Curve) can take over towards the Airport with a Buckhurst Hill (to Loughton) via Hainault route replacing the existing Woodford via Hainault route.

What would be interesting is how Willingale would effect the long-running Thames Estuary Airport proposal, assuming it is not butterflied away would Maplin Sands, Grain / Thames Hub and Cliffe still be in the running like in OTL? Not sure of the latter two in terms of rail links though.

Simon · Oct 2, 2017

It's not an official idea that was ever planned merely something that came up in conversation on the board, so hopefully not disqualified from this thread, but building Heathrow in the Kings Langley area instead instead of our timeline's location does seem to have a lot to recommend it. Avoids overflying central London, could be tied into the main transportation networks fairly easily, provided you left enough land around it room to grow.

Masked Grizzly · Oct 2, 2017

Simon said:
It's not an official idea that was ever planned merely something that came up in conversation on the board, so hopefully not disqualified from this thread, but building Heathrow in the Kings Langley area instead instead of our timeline's location does seem to have a lot to recommend it. Avoids overflying central London, could be tied into the main transportation networks fairly easily, provided you left enough land around it room to grow.

Ideally the minimal criteria for alternate Airport locations would be a small mention in OTL proposals or OTL Airfields capable of becoming International Airports.