Alternative husbands for Eleanor of Aquitaine

Porsenna

There have been threads about a POD where Eleanor of Aquitaine's marriage with Louis VII does not fall apart, but I have been thinking about having her decide to marry a different candidate. There must have been a few, with the size of her domains! And we know she's fertile, so there are good chances of having heirs from whoever she marries.

Who could have the most interesting effects on future history? The Habsburgs and Savoys were just getting going, if I remember my dynasties correctly, and might be seen as up and rising but not quite prestigious enough.

How about Frederick Barbarossa, for example? In OTL he repudiated his wife in 1153, roughly a year after Louis and Eleanor's divorce. What if the two separations work out differently, and both Fred and Eleanor find themselves single at the same time?
 

Bee

The eventual Andronicus I of Byzantium would be an intriguing candidate.
Also Theobald V of Blois (nephew of king Stephen), who tried to kidnap and marry Eleanor after her divorce from Louis VII.
 

desmirelle

Eleanor wed Louis because his father, her guardian, wanted the land to stay in France. She ditched Louis for Henry and wed him almost as soon as the ink was dry on the annulment paperwork (two months, I think). Henry she found harder to be rid of. The attempted kidnap was a strong motivation for the wedding so quickly to Henry. She was no passive, pushover princess, she thought and acted for herself. Louis was about the only thing she did without thinking beyond Queen of France.
 

jefferypendragon

No
desmirelle said:
Eleanor wed Louis because his father, her guardian, wanted the land to stay in France. She ditched Louis for Henry and wed him almost as soon as the ink was dry on the annulment paperwork (two months, I think). Henry she found harder to be rid of. The attempted kidnap was a strong motivation for the wedding so quickly to Henry. She was no passive, pushover princess, she thought and acted for herself. Louis was about the only thing she did without thinking beyond Queen of France.
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I do not know about the will of her father, but by feudal custom when a minor inherits they become the ward of the King, and I guess now that I think about it the king was named guardian in her father's will, and with her owning so much land when the king got his hands on her, marriage to a royal heir was inevitable, the only chance of her marrying someone else is if she was successfully kidnapped (and raped to force consent for marriage on her) on her way to the Royal Court.
 

desmirelle

I don't know. Kidnapping and raping Eleanor might shorten the life of the abductor considerably (like it lasting until the first meal together when she slits his throat with her knife). And if she didn't do it, the King would. Honor (and greed) would demand it. Some pro-monarchist will get a new title *the one belonging to the guy to who kidnapped E* for doing the King a favor and offing the dude.
 

Yanez de Gomera

desmirelle said:
I don't know. Kidnapping and raping Eleanor might shorten the life of the abductor considerably (like it lasting until the first meal together when she slits his throat with her knife). And if she didn't do it, the King would. Honor (and greed) would demand it. Some pro-monarchist will get a new title *the one belonging to the guy to who kidnapped E* for doing the King a favor and offing the dude.
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Unless the kidnapping was consensual in true chivalric fashion... It would very likely mean war in any case.
 
JonasResende

JonasResende

jefferypendragon said:
No


I do not know about the will of her father, but by feudal custom when a minor inherits they become the ward of the King, and I guess now that I think about it the king was named guardian in her father's will, and with her owning so much land when the king got his hands on her, marriage to a royal heir was inevitable, the only chance of her marrying someone else is if she was successfully kidnapped (and raped to force consent for marriage on her) on her way to the Royal Court.
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How much longer can Alienor's dad live. And if he lasts until her majority's past will he marry her elsewhere than to the French prince héréditaire (i.e. was he pro- or anti-Capetian).
 

jefferypendragon

desmirelle said:
I don't know. Kidnapping and raping Eleanor might shorten the life of the abductor considerably (like it lasting until the first meal together when she slits his throat with her knife). And if she didn't do it, the King would. Honor (and greed) would demand it. Some pro-monarchist will get a new title *the one belonging to the guy to who kidnapped E* for doing the King a favor and offing the dude.
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She would of married him for honors sake, and killing your husband was basically heresy (against the order of god) back then. More then a few noblewoman were married after they were raped to their rapist, as long as he had similar status, it would of been more dishonorable to not marry him. Remember a woman's honor was between her legs back then, crappy but very close to true. Another faucet is that rape is really hard to prove today back then is was even way way harder with someone close to her status, and if she couldn't prove it she was just a whore that no man of noble bearing or honor would ever touch again, untrue but... Marriage would been out of the question. Hell she might of had rebellion in her own lands.
 

desmirelle

If the kidnapping occurred before the royal marriage, that noble is toast. Eleanor herself ensured she would not be kidnapped in the two months between her annulment and remarriage. And it would not have been heresy, it would have been treason because the husband was her lord and master. Heresy was not 'against the order of God' - it was a complete renunciation of the faith you were raised in. A single incident of murdering your husband didn't mean you couldn't go to confession and repent for that sin.
 

jefferypendragon

desmirelle said:
But if he 'fell' down the stairs and broke his neck, she's an honorable widow and off to Henry.
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Yeah possible but more likely, depending on who go their hands on her, that she has 10 kids with her rapist/husband and Aquitaine doesn't go to England or France. Or she cooperates until she can free herself from the direct control of her husband, probably after she has had a kid or two, and then gets in a place where she can keep him under house arrest until he has an accident, that she can in no way be implicated in. Now there is a fifty/fifty chance one of her kids is a boy, which would make her marriage value plunge, which would totally change the candidates for a second husband.

It maybe cynical but from what I have read and seen most rapist get a happily ever after not their victims and just because she was rich and had high noble status, doesn't mean that would be different.
 
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desmirelle

Fred might well be the only person who could pull it off, as it would be extremely bad manners to try to assassinate a fellow monarch over a pretty girl. From anyone else, you've insulted the French King and your head is his and he'd like it - now. With the exception of Fred HRE, the French King isn't going to leave the guy around long enough to finish the honeymoon.
 

Darth_Kiryan

desmirelle said:
Fred might well be the only person who could pull it off, as it would be extremely bad manners to try to assassinate a fellow monarch over a pretty girl. From anyone else, you've insulted the French King and your head is his and he'd like it - now. With the exception of Fred HRE, the French King isn't going to leave the guy around long enough to finish the honeymoon.
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I picked Frederick mostly because he was around the same age and certainly had the same type of ambitions as Henry II. And fueled by Elinor, well, it could either be a success, or a disaster.

Like OTL though with Henry II, its her influence over their children which would be the of the conflict. ANd if you get someone of similar to Richard, well, Richard was the mommy's boy and mummies favorite.
 
kasumigenx

kasumigenx

Darth_Kiryan said:
I picked Frederick mostly because he was around the same age and certainly had the same type of ambitions as Henry II. And fueled by Elinor, well, it could either be a success, or a disaster.

Like OTL though with Henry II, its her influence over their children which would be the of the conflict. ANd if you get someone of similar to Richard, well, Richard was the mommy's boy and mummies favorite.
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Frederick Barbarossa is almost the same age as Eleanor's first husband..
 

Darth_Kiryan

kasumigenx said:
Yes, that may mean fewer children or different set of traits, but the union might mean good for Eleanor's claim on Provence and Toulouse.
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Elinore of Aquitaine was popping out children to 1166, with John being her last. at 44 years old

Frederick was still being a father at 59 in 1181.

Different traits aside, they are distinctly fertile. Yes, her age may make things different, but still, she is fertile, so is he.

It also brings up an idea of Frederick going west, instead of East. I mean, I don't htink he would invade France, but if her domains are threatened.....
 
kasumigenx

kasumigenx

Darth_Kiryan said:
Elinore of Aquitaine was popping out children to 1166, with John being her last. at 44 years old

Frederick was still being a father at 59 in 1181.

Different traits aside, they are distinctly fertile. Yes, her age may make things different, but still, she is fertile, so is he.

It also brings up an idea of Frederick going west, instead of East. I mean, I don't htink he would invade France, but....
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But this also means they are likely invading both Toulouse and Provence against the Raimondins and the House of Barcelona.
 
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