Alternative History Armoured Fighting Vehicles Part 3

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Why do you think that Soviets still retained so many t55 right up to the end of 80s ? Infantry support

Bottom line… because they could. The Soviet war machine was truly huge and the T-55 was still required to equip the numerous Cat C formations. So infantry support - yup. Furthermore, the export market was still pretty lucrative for those countries that couldn’t afford the more modern MBTs.
 
I don't have a line drawing of a mini-gun but I do have a 20mm Vulcan but unfortunately not a front view pic.
View attachment 713804
This should give you a rough idea of what your idea would look like.
I personally think this would've torn up the jungles of Vietnam most efficiently.
The Australia Army undertook the arming of an M113 with a minigun in 1966. They were criticised by infantry commanders who felt that it was superfluous, having the firepower of six GPMGs approximately and they abandoned the idea. Their vehicle featured a small turret and an ammunition race across the roof of the troop compartment. Personally I think it was an opportunity lost but can understand why they abandoned it.

I have an idea for a recoilless armed light tank with a rotation reloading mechanism. Most probably a 120mm Rheinmetall frangible base system like the WOMBAT Rcl. The American system with all it's frangible ports along the length of the shell makes it an unnecessarily complicated reloading system with the barrel having to travel forward for the spent round to reloaded. The Rheinmetall system with it's frangible base is much simpler and can use a revolving chamber. I would base it one the AMX-13 oscillating turret with a large reserve of shells in the space behind it. It's venturi would be angled upwards slightly to protect any infantry behind it. It would have been very useful in Vietnam. Anybody care to give a diagram a try?
 
I think that was adapted from the Panzer I's 2-wheel bogie suspension, with the leaf spring pressing against a fixed bar instead of a second road wheel. Probably done to ease development time. Apparently the Ausf. a/b prototypes still had the original Panzer 1 suspension bogies. Also, the Panzer III Ausf. C and D may have used a similar system to the final Panzer II on its front and rear bogies. Otherwise independent springs are rare- in firearms springs have long been an expensive component and good designers will use both ends of the spring for efficiency, so maybe a similar system applied to tank suspensions.


Volute and cone springs will definitely have less length than an equivalent coil spring (that's the main reason they were used in spite of their other disadvantages) as they can slide over each other.

Ultimately many types of suspensions are related by spring type and layout, as I found out after a TL mentioned that HVSS and Horstmann were basically the same except one used volute rather than coil springs. Upon learning further I noticed that some French 1930's suspensions used the same basic design with solid rubber instead of a spring, and that in theory any type of spring that pushed outwards in a straight line could be used with that mechanism (for this purpose, basically any spring other than leaf spring or torsion bar- even hydropneumatic or hydrogas cylinders push in a straight line like a spring). Actually a lot of suspension designs and patents cover a specific combination of an existing layout with an existing type of spring.

Since almost every type of suspension other than torsion bar and leaf spring seems to fall into this category, I realized that these suspensions could be classified by their layout and spring type, and looked for all the relevant suspension layouts and spring types to organize them. Then I could identify and cover every possible suspension/patent combining an existing layout with an existing straight-line spring- even those that were never invented OTL.

This resulted in a diagram of the different layouts I found:
View attachment 713223
Red represents the spring, blue the arm/structure, orange the pivot point, green the roadwheels, purple the gear/arm structure (where applicable), and brown the bogie structure (where applicable) which pivots on the blue point. Although only shown for the direct unit, any of these layouts can have 2-wheel bogies in place of roadwheels. This, plus whether the unit is mounted inside or outside the armored structure, leads to some extra designations to distinguish the variants of these layouts:
  • Bogie: All roadwheels in a layout are replaced by 2-wheel bogies (i.e. the Medium Mark I's suspension)
  • Semi-Bogie: Only applies to dual layouts with 2 roadwheels per unit, 1 roadwheel is replaced by a 2-wheel bogie while the other road wheel is left as it is (mainly used on the Cruiser Mark I/II/Valentine)
For normal roadwheels, there is no prefix

For mounting location:
  • Internal: The entire suspension including roadwheels is covered by armor (i.e. Churchill, Matilda II)
  • Semi-internal: The suspension springs are inside the armored hull, but the roadwheels and roadwheel arms are outside (i.e. Christie)
  • External: The entire suspension is attached to the outside of the armored hull (i.e. Horstmann)
External mounting is assumed if there is no prefix.

For the types of possible springs I found at least:
  1. Elliptical spring (Never used, but it does qualify as pushing in a straight line, so why not)
  2. Coil spring
  3. Solid rubber
  4. Volute spring
  5. Belleville washers
  6. Hydrogas piston
  7. Hydropneumatic piston
Under this system, for example, a Matilda II suspension would be classified as an Internal bogie dual horizontal bell crank using a coil spring.

If comparing just layout and spring type combinations, then a table can be made of all possible suspensions, including existing ones:
LayoutElliptical springCoil springSolid rubberVolute springBelleville washersHydrogas pistonHydropneumatic piston
Direct unitMedium Mark I (Bogie),
Medium Mark II (Internal bogie)
Vertical bell crankChurchill (Internal), Christie M1931/BT/10TP rear wheels (Semi-internal)
Dual vertical bell crankVVSS
Angled bell crankChristie T-34/British (Semi-internal),
Merkava (External)
Challenger 1/2
Dual angled bell crankCruiser Mark I/II/Valentine (Semi-bogie)
Horizontal bell crankPz 58/61/68/Dubonnet systemMBT-70/Hydrop-Feder/In-arm suspension unit
Dual horizontal bell crankHorstmann (External),
Matilda II (Internal bogie)
Some French 1930's tanksHVSS
Inverted horizontal bell crankChristie M1931/BT/10TP front wheel (Semi-internal)
Dual inverted horizontal bell crankJapanese "scissors" tank suspension
Dual inverted horizontal gearE-Series
Existing suspensions in this system are external and using normal roadwheel unless otherwise mentioned.
Also, the Citroën 2CV seems to have a suspension almost identical to the Japanese "scissors" suspension- that being dual inverted horizontal bell crank using coil springs.

Since all of those layouts (except the direct unit) represent levers in some fashion, the lengths of the arms can be adjusted to provide any given travel for any given spring compression, and the springs themselves can be adjusted in length, to provide whatever suspension performance is required. But for some combinations this may require impractically large suspension arms and/or springs, or the given springs can't be made large enough (volute). This is likely why many of these hypothetical suspensions don't exist OTL.

In hindsight I made some errors, the VVSS is slightly different to how it's depicted (it has some extra sliding layer), and I missed the Maus' suspension which is a unique layout (like an alternate dual vertical bell crank), but otherwise it should be able to explain all possible tank suspensions outside of torsion bar and leaf spring. All the blank spots in the table represent theoretically possible suspensions. They might be completely impractical (especially anything using elliptical springs), due to being incredibly large, but they could at least be made for fun on alternate tanks. It's still way more than whatever a player can do with suspensions in Sprocket.
This is a useful post. I will put this comment in so I can find it at need. Thank you.
 
The Australia Army undertook the arming of an M113 with a minigun in 1966. They were criticised by infantry commanders who felt that it was superfluous, having the firepower of six GPMGs approximately and they abandoned the idea. Their vehicle featured a small turret and an ammunition race across the roof of the troop compartment. Personally I think it was an opportunity lost but can understand why they abandoned it.

I have an idea for a recoilless armed light tank with a rotation reloading mechanism. Most probably a 120mm Rheinmetall frangible base system like the WOMBAT Rcl. The American system with all it's frangible ports along the length of the shell makes it an unnecessarily complicated reloading system with the barrel having to travel forward for the spent round to reloaded. The Rheinmetall system with it's frangible base is much simpler and can use a revolving chamber. I would base it one the AMX-13 oscillating turret with a large reserve of shells in the space behind it. It's venturi would be angled upwards slightly to protect any infantry behind it. It would have been very useful in Vietnam. Anybody care to give a diagram a try?

OK, sounds like a challenge. 😉
 
Why do you think that Soviets still retained so many t55 right up to the end of 80s ? Infantry support
Because they still didn't have enough of the 125mm triad to fill all the active units they wanted. This is why a modernisation program was launched to upgrade a few thousand T-55s and T-62s.
Was this ever done in practice during Cold War ? Or retrofitted later
It was done on most Soviet modernized T-55AMs and 62Ms yes, as early as 1983.
 
Why do you think that Soviets still retained so many t55 right up to the end of 80s ? Infantry support
Bottom line… because they could. The Soviet war machine was truly huge and the T-55 was still required to equip the numerous Cat C formations. So infantry support - yup. Furthermore, the export market was still pretty lucrative for those countries that couldn’t afford the more modern MBTs.
To add onto Claymore's point, you've also got to consider what said T-55s would be fighting. In the event of a general all out war (which hasn't gone nuclear for whatever reason), it isn't like said T-55s are going to be the tip of the spear, they're the reserves of the reserves at this point. The general expectation would be that by the time you actually need to send in the T-55s, the enemy would have probably exhausted most of their more modern hardware already while trying to deal with more modern vehicles like the T-72/T-64. If that's the case, than even an old tank is better than no tank at all, and whilst the T-55 would certainly be showing its age by that point in time, it would still be useful in dealing with APCs, IFVs and other vehicles like that, along with any older NATO tanks that might've came out of reserve dumps as the war went on, which could very well be of a similar age to said T-55 in the first place. That's the main thing to remember here: the T-55s were the bottom of the barrel, but they'd also be expected to deal with bottom of the barrel opposition. If they're up against more modern tanks like, say, the early Abrams, then something has gone terribly wrong in the planning room somewhere.

And as old as it might be, there's worse things to be driving if you happen to be in the middle of World War 3:

dZ4Gy8G.jpg


:p
 
The 125mm gun suffered from dispersion problems when it was first mounted on the T-64...
To some degree yes, because of the asymetric recoil mechanism and the extra air in the hydraulic recoil buffer. That wasn't necessarily excessive compared to other guns, and is offset by the oustanding velocity which vastly reduced lead and ranging errors. The L11's recoil system also worked in an uneven way, and the 2A46 fixed the recoil buffer issue in 1970 on T-64A (installed in 1975 on the T-72 after a small run), and was largely the main 125mm variant in the 70s. By then it wasn't special.

In comparison, you have the US still getting wildly inconsistent dispersion on some lots of M392A2 APDS in the 70s after a decade of experience with that projectile...
 
A good selection of base drawings/images all in the same scale and nothing more complicated than MS Paint to do the cutting and pasting. Of course, a good helping of patience, determination and a sense of humour helps immensely!
and a dram of scotlands finest? ;)
 

Driftless

Donor
To add onto Claymore's point, you've also got to consider what said T-55s would be fighting. In the event of a general all out war (which hasn't gone nuclear for whatever reason), it isn't like said T-55s are going to be the tip of the spear, they're the reserves of the reserves at this point. The general expectation would be that by the time you actually need to send in the T-55s, the enemy would have probably exhausted most of their more modern hardware already while trying to deal with more modern vehicles like the T-72/T-64. If that's the case, than even an old tank is better than no tank at all, and whilst the T-55 would certainly be showing its age by that point in time, it would still be useful in dealing with APCs, IFVs and other vehicles like that, along with any older NATO tanks that might've came out of reserve dumps as the war went on, which could very well be of a similar age to said T-55 in the first place. That's the main thing to remember here: the T-55s were the bottom of the barrel, but they'd also be expected to deal with bottom of the barrel opposition. If they're up against more modern tanks like, say, the early Abrams, then something has gone terribly wrong in the planning room somewhere.

And as old as it might be, there's worse things to be driving if you happen to be in the middle of World War 3:

dZ4Gy8G.jpg


:p
Rubber mats? anti-magnetic or what???
 
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