Alternative History Armoured Fighting Vehicles Part 2

[Life In Black]

My understanding is that it was about ten tons lighter more or less.

On paper, yes, the 30.02M was listed as being only 35 tons compared to the 45 tons for the Panther D. However, the number of differences between the 30.02M and the Panther D, namely the additional frontal armor, wouldn't account for a ten ton difference in weight. So it was probably closer to 40 tons in weight than 35.

 

[BIO3729]

Hey guys, I think I'm new to this, but I tried to mate an M3 Lee hull with a Type 97 Chi-Ha's and Type 2 Ho-I turrets. Reason most likely being the Japanese wanting to up-gun their tanks, etc. I don't know if the Shinhoto turret can actually take the M3 gun (from the Sherman) though they do have similar sizes and turret rings, though the Type 2 Ho-I would of course be better suited for a 75mm gun.

Thoughts?

 

[Peebothuhlu]

First off that's not the Löwe, the Löwe was a late war heavy tank design that never went into production.
The tank I posted above (in another thread) is the VK3002M, it was the predecessor of the Panther, it weighed about 12 to 15 tons less than the Panther and was probably a little smaller in height, width and length but carried the same gun and engine as the Panther and in all other respects looks just like an OTL Panther.

Its hard to find information on the VK3002M but if you look up the Panther on Wikipedia, you'll find some info on the 3002 and hopefully "Life in Black" (our AFV historian extraordinaire) will chime in later with some more information on the VK3002M.
Hope this has been of some help to you.

On paper, yes, the 30.02M was listed as being only 35 tons compared to the 45 tons for the Panther D. However, the number of differences between the 30.02M and the Panther D, namely the additional frontal armor, wouldn't account for a ten ton difference in weight. So it was probably closer to 40 tons in weight than 35.

From what I know, the VK 30.02M is basically the Panther D before it was uparmored and the weight increased even more. So it's a slightly lighter Panther D with only 60mm of frontal armor.

Ah, thank'e!

So... a 'lighter' Panther.

*Nods*

 

[cortz#9]

Ah, thank'e!

So... a 'lighter' Panther.

*Nods*

Right and I forgot that Crimson King changed the name of the OTL Tiger to Löwe in his TL, so the Löwe's development in CK's TL would be similar to the OTL Tiger but it would probably go into production a little sooner and be built in greater numbers due to it being also lighter than OTL and the changes that Wagner made to mass production operations in TTL.

 

[cortz#9]

Hey guys, I think I'm new to this, but I tried to mate an M3 Lee hull with a Type 97 Chi-Ha's and Type 2 Ho-I turrets. Reason most likely being the Japanese wanting to up-gun their tanks, etc. I don't know if the Shinhoto turret can actually take the M3 gun (from the Sherman) though they do have similar sizes and turret rings, though the Type 2 Ho-I would of course be better suited for a 75mm gun.

Thoughts?

Interesting, are the Japanese here using captured vehicles or making a copy for their own use? I imagine its the former, I would ask Claymore to scale you up an M3 and a Chi-Ha for a better idea of how it would look and if it would be a plausible conversion IRL.
If it is a Japanese copy, I would still ask Claymore for a scale up but I would think of maybe adding the Chi-Ha's suspension as well but then maybe not.

Cool idea, I think it could've worked but now I'm wondering how many M3s the Japanese captured during the war?

 

[Remitonov]

Interesting, are the Japanese here using captured vehicles or making a copy for their own use? I imagine its the former, I would ask Claymore to scale you up an M3 and a Chi-Ha for a better idea of how it would look and if it would be a plausible conversion IRL.
If it is a Japanese copy, I would still ask Claymore for a scale up but I would think of maybe adding the Chi-Ha's suspension as well but then maybe not.

Cool idea, I think it could've worked but now I'm wondering how many M3s the Japanese captured during the war?

Doesn't seem like they captured any at all, but it's not unlikely. The M3 Lee served in the Burma front, after all.

 

[BIO3729]

By the way, can anyone somehow make a blueprint for the Cromwell LILO? I've been meaning to find one, but there are no pictures of the vehicle.

Also, Remitonov helped me make this rendition of the Universal Carrier; mounted with a 75mm M2 gun taken off of a broken down M3 Lee.

Interesting, are the Japanese here using captured vehicles or making a copy for their own use? I imagine its the former, I would ask Claymore to scale you up an M3 and a Chi-Ha for a better idea of how it would look and if it would be a plausible conversion IRL.
If it is a Japanese copy, I would still ask Claymore for a scale up but I would think of maybe adding the Chi-Ha's suspension as well but then maybe not.

Cool idea, I think it could've worked but now I'm wondering how many M3s the Japanese captured during the war?

Thinking more of a captured version, to test out whether or not they could mount the larger turret on board.

 

[cortz#9]

Hey guys could really use your help with this one. World of Tanks, the online tank game site is holding a "Design your own steampunk tank" contest and I'd like to win it. So I've taken an old steampunk tank design of mine that I did just for fun a few years back and have tried to make some improvements to it.

This is what I have so far, it was originally an Elephant tank but I've redrawn it quite a bit. I feel its still a bit too cartooney and I welcome all suggestions.
So please no "Likes" just tell me how you think I might be able to improve it. The tank is armed with a Gatling gun in the turret and a breech loading black powder cannon in the hull.

So far all the other designs I've seen posted are just pics of tanks with a smokestack attached and I feel that if I submitted this pic as is, I would probably win but the last time I entered one of these contests, I felt the same way and ended up losing to what I considered a less original design.
I want to win this time.

 

[zert]

Maybe more rivets being visable? Larger wheels inside the travks?

 

[cortz#9]

Maybe more rivets being visable? Larger wheels inside the travks?

I agree on the rivets and I originally liked the wheels because they look a little like the wheels on trains. Hmm, going to give that some thought and look thru my files for some possible replacement wheels.
Thanks Zert.

 

[zert]

I agree on the rivets and I originally liked the wheels because they look a little like the wheels on trains. Hmm, going to give that some thought and look thru my files for some possible replacement wheels.
Thanks Zert.

My pleasure. I just thought of the esthetics. I have no talent as an artist. Good luck with the project.

 

[Remitonov]

Hey guys could really use your help with this one. World of Tanks, the online tank game site is holding a "Design your own steampunk tank" contest and I'd like to win it. So I've taken an old steampunk tank design of mine that I did just for fun a few years back and have tried to make some improvements to it.

This is what I have so far, it was originally an Elephant tank but I've redrawn it quite a bit. I feel its still a bit too cartooney and I welcome all suggestions.
So please no "Likes" just tell me how you think I might be able to improve it. The tank is armed with a Gatling gun in the turret and a breech loading black powder cannon in the hull.

So far all the other designs I've seen posted are just pics of tanks with a smokestack attached and I feel that if I submitted this pic as is, I would probably win but the last time I entered one of these contests, I felt the same way and ended up losing to what I considered a less original design.
I want to win this time.

Needs larger tracks. Needs more turrets. Needs to be as impractically cool as possible as possible, with bare minimal safety standards. :3

 

[Claymore]

Hey guys, I think I'm new to this, but I tried to mate an M3 Lee hull with a Type 97 Chi-Ha's and Type 2 Ho-I turrets. Reason most likely being the Japanese wanting to up-gun their tanks, etc. I don't know if the Shinhoto turret can actually take the M3 gun (from the Sherman) though they do have similar sizes and turret rings, though the Type 2 Ho-I would of course be better suited for a 75mm gun.

Thoughts?

Interesting, are the Japanese here using captured vehicles or making a copy for their own use? I imagine its the former, I would ask Claymore to scale you up an M3 and a Chi-Ha for a better idea of how it would look and if it would be a plausible conversion IRL.
If it is a Japanese copy, I would still ask Claymore for a scale up but I would think of maybe adding the Chi-Ha's suspension as well but then maybe not.

Cool idea, I think it could've worked but now I'm wondering how many M3s the Japanese captured during the war?

Interesting idea and well presented. Scale-wise, the turrets are pretty close to the mark. Presentationally, I think they both need to sit a little further back on the hull in order to replicate the position of the Lee/Grant's turret. As for mounting a 75mm M2 gun, it would be a bit of a squeeze in both. Not so obvious from the side elevation but in front elevation or plan view you would see that the gun and mantle is almost as wide as the turret itself. Assuming that the enterprising Japanese manage to shoehorn it in, I still suspect that the turret crew might need to be reduced to two through lack of space. End product, a very tall tank which is still not up to Allied standards of the day but better than most of the AFVs they are fielding themselves.

 

[Claymore]

By the way, can anyone somehow make a blueprint for the Cromwell LILO? I've been meaning to find one, but there are no pictures of the vehicle.

Also, Remitonov helped me make this rendition of the Universal Carrier; mounted with a 75mm M2 gun taken off of a broken down M3 Lee.

Another very neat design. As the Universal Carrier was know for its lively suspension, I suspect the recoil from the 75mm would have rocked the boat quite alarmingly. But hey, those SOE/OSS guys are a tough bunch!

 

[Remitonov]

Another very neat design. As the Universal Carrier was know for its lively suspension, I msuspect the recoil from the 75mm would have rocked the boat quite alarmingly. But hey, those SOE/OSS guys are a tough bunch!

Indeed, they are. :3

If you're curious what this is for, it's for an ASB WWII roleplay on NationStates. The OP was originally for the European front, so I tried making a side roleplay on the Asia-Pacific front. It floundered from a lack of applications, but the ideas are still in draft.

 

[BIO3729]

Q
Interesting idea and well presented. Scale-wise, the turrets are pretty close to the mark. PResentationally, I think they both need to sit a little further back on the hull in order to replicate the position of the Lee/Grant's turret. As for mounting a 75mm M2 gun, it would be a bit of a squeeze in both. Not so obvious from the side elevation but in front elevation or plan view you would see that the gun and mantle is almost as wide as the turret itself. Assuming that the enterprising Japanese manage to shoehorn it in, I still suspect that the. Turret crew might need to be reduced to two through lack of space. End product, a very talL tank which is still not up to Allied standards of the day but better than most of the AFVs they are fielding themselves.

Indeed what I was thinking. Like, what if the Japanese actually tried to open their minds and copy from the tanks their enemies were fielding? Sure with the IJN getting all the funding, they could at least try to mess around with a few captured vehicles for testing. And yeah, the turret would be cramped, but they could probably eventually have their own M4 Sherman for all we know

Another very neat design. As the Universal Carrier was know for its lively suspension, I msuspect the recoil from the 75mm would have rocked the boat quite alarmingly. But hey, those SOE/OSS guys are a tough bunch!

It's quite the utilitarian vehicle indeed, made to bring out the limits of its abilities.

 

[Life In Black]

Q
Interesting idea and well presented. Scale-wise, the turrets are pretty close to the mark. PResentationally, I think they both need to sit a little further back on the hull in order to replicate the position of the Lee/Grant's turret. As for mounting a 75mm M2 gun, it would be a bit of a squeeze in both. Not so obvious from the side elevation but in front elevation or plan view you would see that the gun and mantle is almost as wide as the turret itself. Assuming that the enterprising Japanese manage to shoehorn it in, I still suspect that the. Turret crew might need to be reduced to two through lack of space. End product, a very talL tank which is still not up to Allied standards of the day but better than most of the AFVs they are fielding themselves.

Indeed what I was thinking. Like, what if the Japanese actually tried to open their minds and copy from the tanks their enemies were fielding? Sure with the IJN getting all the funding, they could at least try to mess around with a few captured vehicles for testing. And yeah, the turret would be cramped, but they could probably eventually have their own M4 Sherman for all we know


It's quite the utilitarian vehicle indeed, made to bring out the limits of its abilities.

The Japanese were already working on getting a 75mm in a Chi-Ha turret, in the form of the Ho-I Gun Tank: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_2_Ho-I

 

[BIO3729]

The Japanese were already working on getting a 75mm in a Chi-Ha turret, in the form of the Ho-I Gun Tank: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_2_Ho-I

I know that, which is why the second model I made used the Ho-I turret :\

 

[CaekDaemon]

An interesting post appeared on /r/warthunder today, about an even more interesting looking vehicle: the Ardeer Aggie!

This is the Ardeer Aggie, a proposed replacement for the Churchill AVRE during the Second World War. Only a single prototype was made which currently still exists and is located somewhere in Britain. What differs this vehicle from the regularly run of the mill Churchill AVRE is what you may have noticed from the images, the gun. It uses a 300mm L/10 gun with a 3 metre long gun barrel which fires 20kg (44lb) HE-filled projectile at an effective range of 410m. (450 yards) This differs to the Churchill AVRE observed in World War II as the Churchill AVRE uses a 290mm Petard Mortar firing a 18kg (40lb) HE-filled projectile nicknamed the “Flying dustbin” due to it’s poor flight characteristics at an effective range of approximately ~140m (~150 yards). As you can see the Ardeer Aggie has quite a heavy improvement, not only does it have a much heavier payload and can also be loaded inside the vehicle while the Churchill AVRE requires to be loaded from the front, but the range also is now much further. The vehicle uses a unique method to achieve the recoilless effect, they put a form of counterweight behind the charge in which when the gun recoils (which could have injured or killed anyone around or behind it) which According to World of Tanks - For the Record,

to improve the gun recoilless effect, they did put a sort of “counterweight” behind the charge itself (a package of sand allegedly). When the gun shot, this charge was propelled violently to the back (away from the turret), compensating for the majority of recoil

due to the fact that the gun demanded far larger quantity of gunpowder then normally necessary. This however proved to be cumbersome, as not only would the shell need to be loaded but also the charge and then the counterweight each time the gun would be fired and with each time the gun fired the recoil would be heavy enough to injure the crew capable of concussions and broken bones if they had contact with the gun or surrounding mechanisms or turret which jerked violently. After firing, the gun itself would also reach high temperatures further increasing the crew's health and safety risks. However it was also unsafe to operate around the vehicle itself when firing the bag of sand and the following gun blast which could injure or kill any infantry taking cover behind the vehicle. There were attempts to mount a form of blast collector behind the turret however it was not effective. The project was cancelled as the increased range was not deemed necessary in exchange for the safety of the crew and other friendlies in or around the vehicle.

 

[zert]

Yikes! Having that large sandbag slamming around after is just silly. It just doubles the loading time.