Alternative for Germany

In a game I play, you can choose if Germany stays on the historical course of turning to Nazism or somehow chooses Communism. In a mod, there is one that is Democratic. The creator says that a couple Democratic parties create coalitions to combat the Nazis and they win the elections.
Is something like this possible?

If so, how would it change Germany's course of history?

Also, as time goes on with this scenario, the new government appeals to the allies to be more lenient in reducing the Treaty of Versailles. This appeal is a success, thanks to Neville Chamberlain. The Weimar Republic is eventually scrapped and remade. In the early to mid 40s, a war with the USSR Happens when they invade Poland and Germany essentially joins the allies, but not as strong as in otl.
 
This would probably require a PoD of Franz von Papen not having the qualities of a 50-pfenning kazoo.
 
Last edited:
While it's not impossible to preserve the Weimar Republic, it is difficult. It's constitution had several major weakness like article 48 (allowing the president to rule by emergency degree) and no minimum percentage for political parties to gain seats in the Reichstag. So eliminating these flaws would help. However, Weimar's real problem was many particularly on the right and extreme left did not accept it as legitimate government. The Reichshewr, industrialists and those whispering in Hindenburg's ear never really accepted the Republic. Maybe if You prevent the appointment of the presidential cabinets like Von Papen (which relayed primarly on article 48 and the president's support to rule) and instead keep the cabinets dependent upon coalitions in the Reichstag.
 
While it's not impossible to preserve the Weimar Republic, it is difficult. It's constitution had several major weakness like article 48 (allowing the president to rule by emergency degree) and no minimum percentage for political parties to gain seats in the Reichstag. So eliminating these flaws would help. However, Weimar's real problem was many particularly on the right and extreme left did not accept it as legitimate government. The Reichshewr, industrialists and those whispering in Hindenburg's ear never really accepted the Republic. Maybe if You prevent the appointment of the presidential cabinets like Von Papen (which relayed primarly on article 48 and the president's support to rule) and instead keep the cabinets dependent upon coalitions in the Reichstag.

The lack of a minimum percentage is a bit overrated - there are democracies with no threshold who continue to be democracies. There are also modern-day democracies with successful extreme left-wing or extreme-right wing parties, who still manage to stay on the democratic path. The real problem in Weimar Germany was not only that these extreme parties became the majority, but that the remaining democratic parties and a majority of the population didn't really have faith in democracy. For the younger generation, socialised and politicised during and immideately after WW1, democracy was seen as a thing of the past. Many of the older generation politicians were still stuck in authoritarian (Wilhelminian empire) thinking - even the supposedly democratic ones. It got to the point that in the early 1930s, the only party willing to defend the Republic was the SPD. Even the other parties of the "Weimar coalition" became attracted to authoritarian ideas: the Centre Party, when Kaas took over, and the DDP after it merged with the antisemitic Young German Order. Even the SPD tried to jump on the bandwagon by using populist (and often nationalist) propaganda techniques in the paramilitary Reichsbanner.

So for democracy surviving, there had to be more democrats, which would only have been achieved with democratic reforms already happening in the German empire.
 
The lack of a minimum percentage is a bit overrated - there are democracies with no threshold who continue to be democracies. There are also modern-day democracies with successful extreme left-wing or extreme-right wing parties, who still manage to stay on the democratic path. The real problem in Weimar Germany was not only that these extreme parties became the majority, but that the remaining democratic parties and a majority of the population didn't really have faith in democracy. For the younger generation, socialised and politicised during and immideately after WW1, democracy was seen as a thing of the past. Many of the older generation politicians were still stuck in authoritarian (Wilhelminian empire) thinking - even the supposedly democratic ones. It got to the point that in the early 1930s, the only party willing to defend the Republic was the SPD. Even the other parties of the "Weimar coalition" became attracted to authoritarian ideas: the Centre Party, when Kaas took over, and the DDP after it merged with the antisemitic Young German Order. Even the SPD tried to jump on the bandwagon by using populist (and often nationalist) propaganda techniques in the paramilitary Reichsbanner.

So for democracy surviving, there had to be more democrats, which would only have been achieved with democratic reforms already happening in the German empire.

Alternatively let the republic be a little more successfull e.g. no Ruhr occupation, peaceful revision of the versailles treaty (Streseman was moderately successfull in this, but failed to gain highly visible symbolic concessions like a earlier plebiscite in the saarland, eupen-malmedy or an earlier withdrawl of occupation troops).

btw even thoug the 5% threshold in itself is probably not enough to save the republic it increases the chances (would make it easier to get majorities, counters the tendency of the parties to see themselves only as the representatives of narrowly defined parts of the population etc.)
 
Last edited:
Honestly, I would say that it's pretty easy to prevent the rise of the nazis and the maintenance of the SPD republic, and that that's probably an easier objective than making the KPD come to power in 33, after all their failed revolutionary attempts in the last decade they had a leadership essentially incapable of action without Russian interference, and a Russian situation that never properly understood the German situation after the death of Rosa Luxemburg.
 

Deleted member 1487

Alternatively let the republic be a little more successfull e.g. no Ruhr occupation, peaceful revision of the versailles treaty (Streseman was moderately successfull in this, but failed to gain highly visible symbolic concessions like a earlier plebiscite in the saarland, eupen-malmedy or an earlier withdrawl of occupation troops).

btw even thoug the 5% threshold in itself is probably not enough to save the republic it increases the chances (would make it easier to get majorities, counters the tendency of the parties to see themselves only as the representatives of narrowly defined parts of the population etc.)

There are other things too, like the French accepting the Austro-German customs union of 1931 and not withdrawing their money from Austrian banks which caused the German banking crisis when the Austrian banking system they were linked with collapsed. That pretty much created the worse economic situation that caused the Nazis and the biggest gains for the far right. If that doesn't happen then problems in Austria and German are averted and Brunig likely survives 1932 in office and probably manages to get the Lausanne and Hoover moratoriums on Reparations and US debt that would stabilize Germany and Europe to a far greater degree come 1933; the cyclical uptick then stabilizes Weimar and the Republic can continue.
 
Top