Alternative Congress of Vienna

If Napoleon can win at Leipzig or Waterloo, which was completely possible.

What needs to happen then to get to a better peace. How many battles must Napoleon fight to get there. Can he make seperate peaces. Can he trade enemies off against each other.

Or which of the objectives or combination of objectives below can he pursue

Alternative to/of Congress of Vienna (yes i know it was ratified 9 days prior to Waterloo).

Possibilities.?

Independent Hungarian Kingdom.

More unified Italy.

Independent Kingdomof Poland.

Prussia doesnt get Westphalia - Something similar to the Confederatio of the Rhine is formed in Western Germany as a balance to prussia/Austria.

France keeps French speaking part of Belgium.
 
A sudden change of heart by the other powers, which found putting him down even more important than their quarrels amongst each other.

He's not going to manage to win enough battles to be able to make terms for anything outside France, and even for France would be...unlikely.

He can pursue whatever he wants, but...
 
France was very much beat by the point of Waterloo. If Napoleon won the battle, there was still plenty more enemies to fight, namely the Russians. There was a quarter of a million Russian troops heading West to fight Napoleon. Even if the French were able to win the Battle of Waterloo they would most certainly lose against the Russians and whatever remained of the Seventh Coalition.

Let's ignore all of that, and say Napoleon's ASB Imperial Guard let him beat the Seventh Coalition. The best result Napoleon could see is him on the Throne of France, nothing more. This isn't the 1790s where Napoleon stomped around where he please, this the 1810s and France can bleed no more.
 

MSZ

Banned
Independent Hungarian Kingdom.

Would require a total French victory over Austria. Not happening no matter how strong anti-habsburg rebellions get.

More unified Italy.

Possible - OTL the Habsburg intended to get more influence in Northern Italy in return for turning Galicia to Russia.

Independent Kingdom of Poland.

Happened OTL - kind of. To make it MORE independent, Britain would have to press Russia more in that matter.

Prussia doesnt get Westphalia - Something similar to the Confederatio of the Rhine is formed in Western Germany as a balance to prussia/Austria.

The Deutscher Bund happened OTL. I suppose you could reduce Prussian territories in Westphalia in return for more of Saxony or Mecklemburg.

France keeps French speaking part of Belgium.

French Wallonia would require at least a minor French Victory in the war. Not likely post-Waterloo.
 

Anderman

Donor
* snip

France keeps French speaking part of Belgium.

I like the idea that Prussia gets what know is Belgium . It was under prussian control in 1814

And the Kingdom of Saxony keeps its borders.


https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=180416&highlight=Prussian+Belgium

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Depends on how the Victory at Waterloo goes. No disrespect to Napoleon I, but a number of people feel he simply gave up after Waterloo. That he could have made a stand near Paris, whilst rallying civilian forces to carry out a guerilla war against the allied supply lines.

if he concentrates against the Prussians and thrashes them into annihilation, ( lets say Bluchers Killed ) rather than going for Wellington,
he then marches to the Rhine, Wellington cant chase him.

The Austrians and Russians have disagreements over Poland maybe he can use that to secure a different settlement, maybe Prussias Rhine territories form an independent kingdom.
 
Depends on how the Victory at Waterloo goes. No disrespect to Napoleon I, but a number of people feel he simply gave up after Waterloo. That he could have made a stand near Paris, whilst rallying civilian forces to carry out a guerilla war against the allied supply lines.

if he concentrates against the Prussians and thrashes them into annihilation, ( lets say Bluchers Killed ) rather than going for Wellington,
he then marches to the Rhine, Wellington cant chase him.

The Austrians and Russians have disagreements over Poland maybe he can use that to secure a different settlement, maybe Prussias Rhine territories form an independent kingdom.

1) If he makes a stand near Paris, he'll be crushed.

2) Civilians that just want peace and this to be over with?

3) Why can't Wellington chase him?

4) They also want him dead/banished even more than they resent each other.
 

HJ Tulp

Donor
At Waterloo it's to late. I do think that there is alot more potential in a POD after the Russian campaign. IIRC there was a short truce at a point at which Napoleon could have dealt a heavy blow against the Allies in Germany. After that a congress in Vienna and anything is possible really.
 
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