Alternate WW2 Navies

Musketeer513

In college we use to wargame every other weekend. When it came to ships most battles were ones that were from history. A few were fantasy like USN vs RN. Once asked how would these fleets ever get made? So now we tried to come up with the needed PODs to get our scenarios. Most basic one was ship building started early 30s because of the Great Depression. Found some of our old forms so let me ask how did this become the Royal Navy?

5. Queen Elizabeth (modernized)
2. Renown (modernized)
1. Hood (modernized)
2. Rodney
5. King George V (with 12-14" guns)
6. Vanguard (1 with turrets from the Courageous as iOTL, 5 with turrets from Revenge class)
4. Lion (1938 design)
2. Lion (1942 design)
3. Lion (1944 design)

Now, remember all the ships were not in commission at the same time. iOTL, the USN had 24 battleships/large cruisers but no way were they there at the same time.

This was just the RN's capital ships not the carriers or cruisers.

Wait to you see the USN.
 
Linbot

Linbot

Could you clarify the challenge? Are you asking us to draw up a POD for how the US and the UK are at war with each other, or for how the Royal Navy is in this state?
 

Musketeer513

The French Navy in TL

3 Courbet (rebuilt, similar to Bretagne with 10-13.4" guns, modernized)
3 Bretagne (modernized)
2 Dunkerque
3 Richelieu
1 Gascoigne
6 Alsace

3 Joffre (carrier)
 

Musketeer513

So far my ideas for the POD would be the expansion of shipyards in the early 30s as an infrastructure project my several nations to help ease the Great Depression, WW2 starting 2 years later to allow more ships started in 1939 to get completed.
 

Musketeer513

German Navy

3 Konigsberg light cruisers
3 Leipzig light cruisers
4 M class light cruisers
8 improved M class light cruisers
6 Hipper heavy. cruisers
3 Von der Tan (renamed Deutschland)
3 D class cruisers
3 P class cruisers
3 Scharnhorst
3 O class battlecruisers
3 Bismarck
6 H-39 battleships
2 H-41 battleships
2 H-42 battleships
2 H-43 battleships
3 H-44 battleships
2 Graf Zeppelin
4 improved Graf Zeppelin
 

Musketeer513

To build navies you need a lot of steel so steel production must go up and dock yards and docking facilities. If in the early 30s money spent to expand these things to alleviate depression could jump start naval construction.
 

Musketeer513

Japanese Carriers

4 Kirishima (modified Kongo)
4 Hyuga (modified Fuso & Ise)
1 Akagi
1 Kaga
2 Sorry
2 Zuiho
2 Shokaku
8 Taiho
2 Chitose
19 Unryo
 

Peg Leg Pom

New Zealand Division Royal Navy May 1939 (Royal New Zealand Navy 1941)

Flagship
HMS Vindictive with 10 Blackburn Shark, 6 Hawker Osprey & 4 Hawker Nimrod (To be replaced in 1941 by Armed Merchant Cruiser Carnarvon Castle converted to a trade protection carrier).

Cruisers

HMS Leander, HMS Achilles.

4 Destroyers

6 Flower Class Sloops

12 Naval Trawlers
 
Last edited:
Hood

Hood

Musketeer513 said:
In college we use to wargame every other weekend. When it came to ships most battles were ones that were from history. A few were fantasy like USN vs RN. Once asked how would these fleets ever get made? So now we tried to come up with the needed PODs to get our scenarios. Most basic one was ship building started early 30s because of the Great Depression. Found some of our old forms so let me ask how did this become the Royal Navy?

5. Queen Elizabeth (modernized)
2. Renown (modernized)
1. Hood (modernized)
2. Rodney
5. King George V (with 12-14" guns)
6. Vanguard (1 with turrets from the Courageous as iOTL, 5 with turrets from Revenge class)
4. Lion (1938 design)
2. Lion (1942 design)
3. Lion (1944 design)

Now, remember all the ships were not in commission at the same time. iOTL, the USN had 24 battleships/large cruisers but no way were they there at the same time.

This was just the RN's capital ships not the carriers or cruisers.

Wait to you see the USN.
Click to expand...
Most of this is certainly plausible.
If you start the rebuilding program earlier(before the shipbuilding industry gets crippled from 31-33) It means more ships can be rebuilt, the yards can stay open, and therefore it would be easier and quicker for new ships to be built.

For the KGVs 12 14' guns would work, but so would 9 15' guns.
Honestly though, I would find it hard to get Vanguards, KGVS and Lions all built.
Britain's shipbuilding capacity, at its peak, was 4 BBs per year. That was in the run up to WW1
With larger ships, that take more time, even Britain would have a hard time, if they are building
10-15 new ships, and rebuilding 8. Surely with such a large program is there any point of rebuilding the QE's at all?
 

Musketeer513

USN Carriers

2 Lexington
3 Yorktown
32 Essex
17 Midway


RN Carriers

3 Courageous
1 Ark Royal
3 Illustrious
1 Indomitable
2 Implacable
3 Unicorn
8 Colossus
6 Majestic
2 Perseus
4 Audacious
4 Malta
8 Centaur


Soviet Fleet

6 Soviets Soyuz battleships
6 Kronshtadt battlecruisers
6 Kirov heavy cruisers
18 Chapayev light cruisers
 

Musketeer513

IJN Cruisers

Light
4 Agano
3 Oyodo
Heavy
2 Furutaka
2 Aoba
4 Myoko
4 Takao
4 Mogami
2 Tone
2 Ibuki


RN Cruisers

7 Kent
4 London
2 Norfolk
7 York
8 Leander
4 Arethusa
5 Southampton
3 Gloucester
2 Edinburgh
11 Dido
5 Bellona
8 Finish
3 Ceylon
8 Swiftsure
6 Tiger
 

Musketeer513

USN battleships sold to Allies during WW2;

1 Wyoming to Brazil
2 New York to Chile
1 Nevada to Canada
1 Pennsylvania

USN

3 New Mexico
2 Tennessee
3 Colorado
2 North Carolina
4 South Dakota
6 Iowa
5 Montana
4 Georgia (Montana with 8-18" guns)
4 Virginia ( Montana redesign with 9-18" guns)
6 Alaska
 
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