Alternate Wolverines?

Knowing how iconic the character was (is), I wondered what impact it might have on the success of X-Men, & on comics generally, if he'd been different. He was different in his first full appearance, in Hulk 181 (more erudite, frex). His adamantium skeleton & slow aging (AFAIK) were a product of work by Chris & John after the New X-Men debuted.

I see three possibilities.

One, he keeps the "glove claws" Len Wein envisaged. (It was, AIUI, Chris' idea they be part of him.)

Two, he's more Nightcrawler-like (which would butterfly away 'crawler). This would, IMO, save Thunderbird. (And Dave Cockrum liked 'crawler better than Wolvie, too.)

Three, he's chosen to be killed in X-Men 95, instead of Thunderbird. This, IMO, depends on either Chris & Dave not deciding to make the claws part of him or him being nearer Nightcrawler (who Dave liked better).

Option Three would seem to butterfly away the creation of Vindicator, & Alpha Flight (or, at least, the OTL versions). Option One seems to make Option Three more likely.

Without knowing more, I wonder if Wolvie's death impacts on Alan Moore's treatment of Rorschach.

And does Wolvie's notional death impact the grimdarkness? Or does Dark Knight kick that into overdrive anyhow?
 

TimeGoddess

Banned
*sigh* Where's Hugh Jackman when you really need him?:rolleyes::p

Red Dawn actually was my first thought, but then I had the University of Michigan fight song pop in my head.

And since this thread is about Wolverines (in the plural form), both Red Dawn and The University of Michigan are on topic.
 

shiftygiant

Gone Fishin'
To be serious to the OP, if he keeps the gloved claws, then the identity of Wolverine will likely become a legacy issue. I for one would like to see this- maybe Kitty Pryde becomes Wolverine, it'd certainly fit the lone Ronin thing they had going in the 80's/90's.

On the second and third point, whilst I doubt Nightcrawler would be killed or dropped away (who doesn't love him?), but Wolverine would certainly be killed instead of Thunderbird. Which would fit the legacy idea nicely.

What would be interesting is if they don't use Wolverine for the X-Men. Maybe editorial decides that he's not suitable and they want someone else. Whilst this would butterfly away his popularity, I could see him instead becoming a member of an incarnation of Alpha Flight, due to his already being established as a Canadian Super Hero, or as a villain to the X-Men themselves, given how he first appeared to dick about with the hulk. This would also leave the idea of him being a mutated Wolverine open.

Of course, the obligatory reference: https://youtu.be/FsdfDKT2HXk?t=36s
I know, it's the one that sucks.
 
shiftygiant said:
To be serious to the OP
TY.:cool:
shiftygiant said:
if he keeps the gloved claws, then the identity of Wolverine will likely become a legacy issue.
That's something I hadn't considered: a "rebooted" Wolvie, in the fashion of the second Thunderbird, or the improved Beetle. (With a flavor of Hobgoblin?)

That leaves everything open, from new good guy to bad guy...:cool::cool:
shiftygiant said:
I for one would like to see this- maybe Kitty Pryde becomes Wolverine, it'd certainly fit the lone Ronin thing they had going in the 80's/90's.
Without Logan in the X-men (& a "legacy" Wolvie suggests he doesn't last that long), chances are really good that relationship never happens.:(

OTOH, given a *Wolvercrawler is on the team, there's chance of those two forming a similar relationship. (Given Claremont's mania for things Japanese, chances are good *Wolvercrawler ends up a furry ninja.:rolleyes:) And Kitty did like Kurt, too. (More teddy bearish, perhaps, but TTL he'd be less "fuzzy elf".:eek:)
shiftygiant said:
On the second and third point, whilst I doubt Nightcrawler would be killed or dropped away (who doesn't love him?), but Wolverine would certainly be killed instead of Thunderbird. Which would fit the legacy idea nicely.
Allowing he's not the same 'crawler (more WBN or Tigra), I tend to agree. OTOH, without knowing why Dave disliked Wolvie, could be he ends up buggered somehow...:rolleyes: Best thing that could happen would be none of the "psycho explosion" & "I'm the best there is" nonsense...:rolleyes: (If he's more "beasty" {Beast-y?:p}, keeping a rein on it is the heroic thing {per Phoenix}).

That makes me wonder about the Phoenix Saga: could Chris decide to use *Wolvercrawler & his struggle with "beast-ness" to make the same point? And end up killing him, instead?:eek:

Which reminds me: we also don't get the (fairly ridiculous) image of a 60+yr old Logan mooning over a teenage Jean...:confused:
shiftygiant said:
What would be interesting is if they don't use Wolverine for the X-Men. Maybe editorial decides that he's not suitable and they want someone else. Whilst this would butterfly away his popularity, I could see him instead becoming a member of an incarnation of Alpha Flight, due to his already being established as a Canadian Super Hero, or as a villain to the X-Men themselves, given how he first appeared to dick about with the hulk. This would also leave the idea of him being a mutated Wolverine open.
This may be the most interesting outcome of all, within existing (pre-'bone claws' retcon) continuity. Claremont has Jamie saying he intended Logan to lead AF.:cool: (It would seem to butterfly away Vindicator.:() That does presuppose AF even happens, & unless glove-Wolvie gets popular on his own, somehow, I'm wondering if it would.

Wolvie as a baddie has interesting butterflies, too.

The "legacy" angle leaves it open, maybe, to go both ways: a baddie "finds" the OTL Hulk-Wolvie's gear & takes the ID (akin Hobgoblin)...or the Alpha Project "reassigns" the ID to another guy; or another writer (not Claremont) gets the AF project & keeps the original.

How he avoids ending up in X-Men, when the book gets rebooted with the Giant, is the big question on all that, especially if Claremont & Cockrum (I got the sense it was mainly Chris, but...) want a more "international" squad. It's kinda hard to ignore Canada...& Logan's been established. He could say no...:eek: (We never saw anybody who did...but...:cool:)

If he beats the Hulk, it's possible he could turn up a time or two there, again, & end up a regular--or even in the Avengers.:cool:

In all these cases, it looks to me like he ends up more a supporting character, without the iconic status he gained OTL. Does that have butterflies for Rorschach? Or was that Bats-driven? (Or did Alan simply make it up whole cloth?)

I'm also thinking that will probably mean X-Men sales don't go through the roof, even after Byrne gets the book. Then again, what they do with Thunderbird & *Wolvercrawler is pretty wide open...
 
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