Alternate Wikipedia Infoboxes II

[Archangel Michael]

Astrodyne is one of the largest and most powerful corporations in the solar system, and is headed up by the richest man in history, Scot Burr. Astrodyne's initial claim to fame was the Burr-Kamijio nuclear pulse jet rocket that revolutionized, cutting travel times significantly and making interplanetary flight far more cost-effective. Started right out of college by Burr and his childhood friend, Izabelle Ford, with loans from both their families, Astrodyne quickly cornered the market on rocket engines and expanded. The company has become a significant conglomerate and includes a wide variety of different subsidiaries from computing and information technology to biotech and health to food to mining and mineral extraction to energy to ore production to weapons to private security forces--Astrodyne does it all. However, Astrodyne has been a source of major controversy in recent years due to it's ongoing human cloning project, which was first unveiled in 2122 (for which Scot Burr was named TIME's Person of the Year, and the research team (lead by Maggie Neher, Walter O'Keefe, and John Henry Roth) won the Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine in 2130)--human cloning remains illegal in the United States under so-called Sixth Day Laws first passed in the 2030s during the first major human cloning bruhaha with Adam Morgan and ZymoTech. Following the death of Scot Burr's wife Juliette in 2019, he went into seclusion and the company faltered despite the continued stewardship under Izabelle Ford--following his first public appearance in 2122 during the announcement of the first successful cloned human being, the company's fortunes have gone up again, though many suspect that Ford is calling the shots while Burr remains a figurehead.

And just real quick, Scot Burr and his right-hand woman, Izabelle Ford. Burr and Ford were childhood friends and were later college classmates, forming a close bond. Ford headed up the administrative side of things when Burr started Astrodyne, and has served variously as the Chief Financial Officer, Chief Operating Officer and (now) President of the Company. During Burr's self-imposed isolation following his wife's death on a hiking trip in Antarctica, Ford ran the company and still handles most of it's day-to-day operations.

 

[Kaiser K]

I could believe a Republican winning these situations if the candidates weren't a southern segregationist Democrat who lost the South to a leading member of the eastern establishment Republicans. If it were a Yankee Democrat, or even someone like Humprhey, over some Republican more cautious/silent on the issue of civil rights (like the few Republicans who voted against the 1964 bill), then I could swallow it. It seems a bridge too far with the information you are giving us now.

Lodge (and the President) were silent on the issue of Civil Rights here, leading to Smathers even moderate (albeit still conservative) stance on it and the fact that he spoke about the issue helping his appeal to even liberal voters.

 

[Utgard96]

Lodge (and the President) were silent on the issue of Civil Rights here, leading to Smathers even moderate (albeit still conservative) stance on it and the fact that he spoke about the issue helping his appeal to even liberal voters.

See, I think you're missing a fairly vital part of how America worked at this time. Identity politics outweighed actual ideological stances almost every time, and the Solid South would vote for one of their own over a Northern Republican almost every time (the exception possibly being if the southern Democrat was a Soviet apologist like Pepper). Quite honestly, there's no way Smathers is losing half the South to Lodge, and vice versa applies to New England.

As for the State of Iceland, every single time you've mentioned it, we've pointed out how insane an idea it is. There is simply no reason for Americans to settle permanently there, and even if they did, there's no way in hell Iceland is giving up its independence.

 

[Kaiser K]

See, I think you're missing a fairly vital part of how America worked at this time. Identity politics outweighed actual ideological stances almost every time, and the Solid South would vote for one of their own over a Northern Republican almost every time (the exception possibly being if the southern Democrat was a Soviet apologist like Pepper). Quite honestly, there's no way Smathers is losing half the South to Lodge, and vice versa applies to New England.

So they would vote for Smathers even if he shifted on the issue of Civil Rights; which would thoroughly piss off many within the South?

As for New England, Smathers did have a Northern running mate and his moderate platform I feel could appeal to some of the moderate and liberal voters up North, so i don't see why he can't win some of the New England States.

As for the State of Iceland, every single time you've mentioned it, we've pointed out how insane an idea it is. There is simply no reason for Americans to settle permanently there, and even if they did, there's no way in hell Iceland is giving up its independence.

How not? Iceland is a perfect North Atlantic base to build military bases against the Reich in that region, and in the years before annexation, it being a tax haven (due to being excempt from American taxes) and a potential business hub to be exploited due to it's energy resources could cause some to make the plunge and move I believe, and if the US wanted to annex Iceland; there really isn't much the Icelanders can actually do to prevent it.

 

[Cascadia Libera]

 

[NothingNow]

The two submarines that the Coast Guard's REVCOM operates: the Daniel Boone class guided missile submarine and the Des Moines class attack submarine. As usual, the bulk of them are built and stationed on Europa--half of each. Both are based off of old U.S. Navy designs--in the Daniel Boone's case, off the John Hancock-class ballistic missile submarine, but with cruise missiles instead of ballistic missiles (the Minutemen have long coveted nuclear capability, and it's believed that the Daniel Boones can be quickly converted to ballistic missile submarines if necessary. Despite the shallow Great Sea on Io, the Coast Guard has begun construction of 6 Flight II (lengthened to accommodate 2 additional missile tubes) submarines due to the lessons of the Ionian Mutiny and the usefulness of precision strikes from sea-launched cruise missiles.

So do the Boone-class have a handful of tubes with multiple missiles per tube (like the Ohio-class SSGNs and the Arihant,) or are they smaller individual tubes like the Los Angeles-class Block II onwards?

Then again, either way they'd have to develop new ICBMs, because moons, so just issuing them with Nuclear TLAM-As instead of TASMs or TLAM-C/Ds would likely be faster and cheaper.

 

[Morraw]

So they would vote for Smathers even if he shifted on the issue of Civil Rights; which would thoroughly piss off many within the South?

Yes; yes he would. Unless he's going as far left as LBJ did in OTL (which I really doubt), Smathers would pick up states such as Tennessee and Texas. Hell, look at the 1964 election and how many southern states he still captured, despite being in favour of civil rights legislation. Is segregation and civil rights even an issue in you version of the 1960 election, because if it isn't, I really doubt these results would work; and if they are, I still can't see someone like Lodge winning Texas, even if he was "silent on the issue of Civil Rights". Also, why does the Republican's silence on civil rights cause the Democrats to move against it? It didn't happen in OTL presidential elections (just look at early the Eisenhower years), so why does it happen here, especially with a southerner such as Smathers?

I really think you'll need to revise your election.

 

[Laqueesha]

From the "Inversed" thread:

Brazilian John Boehner:



American (Texan) Park Geun-hye:

U.S. Navy SEAL Osama bin Laden:

http://s22.postimg.org/444w14g1t/Don_Giuliani.png

I'll run him a campaign he can't refuse.

 

[Utgard96]

How not? Iceland is a perfect North Atlantic base to build military bases against the Reich in that region, and in the years before annexation, it being a tax haven (due to being excempt from American taxes) and a potential business hub to be exploited due to it's energy resources could cause some to make the plunge and move I believe, and if the US wanted to annex Iceland; there really isn't much the Icelanders can actually do to prevent it.

Okay, so first of all, unless there's work opportunities, people do not move to tax havens. They simply move their monetary resources there. Secondly, what natural resources? As we established last time we had this discussion, Iceland does not have a part in the North Sea oil business, and their main natural resources are fish and geothermal energy, neither of which is the kind of thing causing rushes. There really aren't any work opportunities for foreigners in Iceland other than the military base (which, again, is not the sort of thing that makes people immigrate on a permanent basis) and archaeology (which is a tiny, tiny labour market).

So even having established that there's no reason for them to do it, if Americans should move to Iceland en masse with the express purpose of filibustering the government and getting statehood for the country, this is not 1840s Latin America. International relations don't work that way anymore. If you move to a new country (especially culturally conservative Iceland), you have to try to integrate with its culture and society, not demand it join the place you came from.

Have I made myself sufficiently clear that this is, to put it frankly, a patently ridiculous idea? And would you please listen to reason for once instead of sticking to your ridiculous ideas out of some sort of flawed sense of pride?

 

[Hālian]

 

[Archangel Michael]

So do the Boone-class have a handful of tubes with multiple missiles per tube (like the Ohio-class SSGNs and the Arihant,) or are they smaller individual tubes like the Los Angeles-class Block II onwards?

Then again, either way they'd have to develop new ICBMs, because moons, so just issuing them with Nuclear TLAM-As instead of TASMs or TLAM-C/Ds would likely be faster and cheaper.

They're more like the modified Ohio SSGNs with multiple missiles per tube. The Minutemen are really really hoping they can get something heavier someday.

 

[Kaiser K]

Yes; yes he would. Unless he's going as far left as LBJ did in OTL (which I really doubt), Smathers would pick up states such as Tennessee and Texas. Hell, look at the 1964 election and how many southern states he still captured, despite being in favour of civil rights legislation. Is segregation and civil rights even an issue in you version of the 1960 election, because if it isn't, I really doubt these results would work; and if they are, I still can't see someone like Lodge winning Texas, even if he was "silent on the issue of Civil Rights". Also, why does the Republican's silence on civil rights cause the Democrats to move against it? It didn't happen in OTL presidential elections (just look at early the Eisenhower years), so why does it happen here, especially with a southerner such as Smathers?

I really think you'll need to revise your election.

Yes they are, Segregation and Civil Rights are actually two of the main issues of this version of the 1960 election, and the main domestic issues at that; with the Soviet Civil War and the Vietnam War being the main foreign issues.

So, the Democrats are forced to move to at least the center on the matter and portray themselves as the alternative to the "silent" Republicans, to attract voters who are becoming very concerned with the issue.

Have I made myself sufficiently clear that this is, to put it frankly, a patently ridiculous idea? And would you please listen to reason for once instead of sticking to your ridiculous ideas out of some sort of flawed sense of pride?

American Iceland is an already established part of my TL, so I can't just move away from it like you suggest.

I won't lie and say it is a completely plausible idea, but I personally found merit in it, and after consulting with the board in a thread dedicated to it; chose to go forward with it.

 

[Gryphon]

Yes they are, Segregation and Civil Rights are actually two of the main issues of this version of the 1960 election, and the main domestic issues at that;

So, the Democrats are forced to move to at least the center on the matter and portray themselves as the alternative to the "silent" Republicans, to attract voters who are becoming very concerned with the issue.

How can a candidate from a major party 'stay silent' on the 'most important issue of the election' and not piss off every voter in both parties? More importantly, how are the Democrats 'forced' to do anything except point out that their opponent's silence means they're unwilling to take a stand on the most important issue of the election?

it would be like McCain deciding to 'stay silent' about the economy in 2008 and expecting to win because his silence would force Obama to be conservative.

 

[Superman]

The 1960 United States Presidential Election from my timeline "a Valkyrie Rises Over Europe"

The Democratic nominee, Florida Senator George Smathers and his running mate, New Jersey Governor Robert B. Meyner, would defeat the Republican nominee, Vice President Henry Cabot Lodge Jr. and his running mate, Illinois Senator Goodwin Knight, by a margin of 459 Electoral Votes to 78; carrying 36 states and the popular vote in addition.

K, what about trying this as an electoral map instead (yes, I realize that it's nearly identical to 1976, but I didn't notice until after I already filled in the states):

 

[Turquoise Blue]

K, what about trying this as an electoral map instead (yes, I realize that it's nearly identical to 1976, but I didn't notice until after I already filled in the states):

This, perhaps? Flipped Virginia and Illinois to Smathers and Massachusetts (Lodge's home state!), New York and Washington to Lodge.

I can see Oklahoma going for Smathers as well, but it could easily go for Lodge.

 

[Superman]

This, perhaps? Flipped Virginia and Illinois to Smathers and Massachusetts (Lodge's home state!), New York and Washington to Lodge.

I can see Oklahoma going for Smathers as well, but it could easily go for Lodge.

Not too bad. I only have Massachusetts to Smathers because it's very strongly Democratic (only voted Republican 3 times since 1928).

EDIT: Never mind, that doesn't work. That would lead to a GOP victory.

 

[Turquoise Blue]

Not too bad. I only have Massachusetts to Smathers because it's very strongly Democratic (only voted Republican 3 times sine 1928).

True, but with Lodge running and Smathers being Southern (and having Robert Byrd, a West Virginian, as veep), I expect New England would be more Republican.

New York is a state that historically liked moderate Republicans like Nelson Rockefeller. Contrast Lodge against Smathers, NY would go for Lodge.

EDIT: I see. Hmmm... Oklahoma could flip it?

 

[Superman]

True, but with Lodge running and Smathers being Southern (and having Robert Byrd, a West Virginian, as veep), I expect New England would be more Republican.

New York is a state that historically liked moderate Republicans like Nelson Rockefeller. Contrast Lodge against Smathers, NY would go for Lodge.

EDIT: I see. Hmmm... Oklahoma could flip it?

Romney was from Massachusetts IOTL, yet he still lost it in 2012. I think it's perfectly plausible for Lodge to lose it.

 

[Turquoise Blue]

Romney was from Massachusetts IOTL, yet he still lost it in 2012. I think it's perfectly plausible for Lodge to lose it.

That's a different kettle of fish. 2012 was in a more polarised atmosphere. Massachusetts was going for Obama no matter what.

1960 is in a different era, one that is less polarised. With Massachusetters seeing the ballot and having to choose between a native Bay Stater and a Southern Democrat, they have a strong chance of going for Lodge over Smathers.

 

[Klisz]

K, what about trying this as an electoral map instead (yes, I realize that it's nearly identical to 1976, but I didn't notice until after I already filled in the states):

This, perhaps? Flipped Virginia and Illinois to Smathers and Massachusetts (Lodge's home state!), New York and Washington to Lodge.

I can see Oklahoma going for Smathers as well, but it could easily go for Lodge.

Don't forget that Iceland is a state ITTL.