Alternate Wife for Alternate King

Basically, in the timeline I'm working on, Princess Charlotte of Wales (daughter and heir of George IV) never died in childbirth and ascended to the throne. Her son, who also died with her in childbirth in our timeline, also survives. Therefore, Queen Victoria -who is still born- never takes the throne and we enter the Charlottean (Carolean?) era in lieu of the Victorian.

Basically, I need a wife for the 'new king', and will happily take any suggestions for her. Currently, my options are:
I would also love spousal suggestions for his siblings (four brothers and five sisters!)
 
Basically, in the timeline I'm working on, Princess Charlotte of Wales (daughter and heir of George IV) never died in childbirth and ascended to the throne. Her son, who also died with her in childbirth in our timeline, also survives. Therefore, Queen Victoria -who is still born- never takes the throne and we enter the Charlottean (Carolean?) era in lieu of the Victorian.

Basically, I need a wife for the 'new king', and will happily take any suggestions for her. Currently, my options are:
I would also love spousal suggestions for his siblings (four brothers and five sisters!)

Welcome to the board.

And any consort's really fine by me, as long as you don't marry him to cousin Drina (Victoria) then we're good. His dad - the Nestor of Europe - will most likely be the only providing a decisive role in any of his kids' marriages. He was ambitious OTL, so he's gonna be no more so here. If we had OTL's Coburg on (almost) every throne in Europe, I could see Leopold doing the same here (Catholics, no problem, he's got a couple of Catholic nieces and nephews for that).

Most prestigious Protestant state in Europe (at that point) is Prussia. So, maybe Friedrich Wilhelm IV gets another wife, maybe he and his wife actually have kids, I don't know, but it's not unthinkable (I think I read once that the marriage was either never consummated or one of them had a reason to know that the bronze statue of a baby in Queen Elisabeth's apartments would be the only child they'd ever have). So, if FWIV has no kids, his brother's kids might be next up to bat (however, since they seem rather thin on the ground (earliest being born in the late 1820s, off we go to the male-line of Friedrich Wilhelm II. His youngest son has an eligible daughter in Marie of Prussia (OTL queen of Bavaria).

Then, if we start looking at other states with half-Prussian daughters close in age - Wilhelmina of the Netherlands (b.1824); Luise of Mecklenburg-Schwerin (b.1824). Wilhelmina's mother is Russian, her father was once considered for Charlotte and the Netherlands is a traditional ally of the British so that might be a match to go through.

Anglo-Russian relations are not yet too terrible AFAIK, so seeing Nikolai I offer Maria Nikolaïevna is not unthinkable, albeit probably unlikely. Maria "Masha" was his favourite daughter and I think he'd want her to stay close to home. Alexandrine of Baden was originally betrothed to Alexander II, but when Alex went traipsing through Germany to meet her, he encountered the grand duke of Hesse's "daughter" and married her instead (her questionable paternity would rule her out for a prince of Wales, I'd imagine).

Another of Victoria's OTL suitors's wives puts in an appearance with Louise of Hesse-Kassel (OTL wife of Christian IX of Denmark). Even if you don't go with Louise, she's got a couple sisters, from the Princess-Consort of Anhalf-Dessau (b.1814) to the Baronness van Nasbyholm (b.1823). Them being nieces of the duchess of Cambridge might count in their favour.

The woman who facilitated Leopold and Charlotte's marriage (Grand Duchess Ekaterina Pavlovna, Queen of Wurttemberg) might also not be left out. She has two daughters (the OTL pro-English liberal queen of the Netherlands, and Countess von Neipperg, her husband's daughters by his third marriage might be considered, but they don't have the same clout (whilst they would be in the line of British succession already through their descent from George II).)

And that's all I can think of at the moment.
 
And any consort's really fine by me, as long as you don't marry him to cousin Drina (Victoria) then we're good. His dad - the Nestor of Europe - will most likely be the only providing a decisive role in any of his kids' marriages. He was ambitious OTL, so he's gonna be no more so here. If we had OTL's Coburg on (almost) every throne in Europe, I could see Leopold doing the same here (Catholics, no problem, he's got a couple of Catholic nieces and nephews for that).


First of all, thank you so much for the reply! ♡


Don't worry, I have plans for cousin Drina (in that cousin-uncle Nestor marries her far away from Britain to his own advantage. Maybe Hanover? Or even Belgium?)


So, to make everything a little clearer (and make kids easier to match up), here's Charlotte and Leopold’s brood:
  • George (November 5, 1817)
  • Alfred (December 3, 1818)
  • Charlotte (August 28, 1820)
  • Mary (November 18, 1822)
  • Frederick (April 29, 1824)
  • Augusta (January 14, 1826)
  • Arthur (June 18, 1828)
  • Louisa (April 23, 1831)
  • Henry (November 27, 1833)
  • Sophia (May 19, 1837)
I don't know how I missed Sophie of Wurttemberg, because she is just about perfect. Daughter of their matchmaker, intelligent, and related to all the Powers That Be, I think even Nestor will be satisfied.


Most prestigious Protestant state in Europe (at that point) is Prussia. So, maybe Friedrich Wilhelm IV gets another wife, maybe he and his wife actually have kids, I don't know, but it's not unthinkable (I think I read once that the marriage was either never consummated or one of them had a reason to know that the bronze statue of a baby in Queen Elisabeth's apartments would be the only child they'd ever have). So, if FWIV has no kids, his brother's kids might be next up to bat (however, since they seem rather thin on the ground (earliest being born in the late 1820s, off we go to the male-line of Friedrich Wilhelm II. His youngest son has an eligible daughter in Marie of Prussia (OTL queen of Bavaria).

The plan is / was to marry either Louisa or Sophia to Prince Friedrich of Prussia, the nephew of Friedrich Wilhelm IV via his brother-heir Wilhelm and eventual Friedrich III of Prussia. In OTL he married Victoria, the Princess Royal, so I figured it was plausible and doubted Nestor would let such a match slide. I also thought about snagging Marie for their second son, listed below.


Anglo-Russian relations are not yet too terrible AFAIK, so seeing Nikolai I offer Maria Nikolaïevna is not unthinkable, albeit probably unlikely. Maria "Masha" was his favourite daughter and I think he'd want her to stay close to home. Alexandrine of Baden was originally betrothed to Alexander II, but when Alex went traipsing through Germany to meet her, he encountered the grand duke of Hesse's "daughter" and married her instead (her questionable paternity would rule her out for a prince of Wales, I'd imagine).

It's interesting that you brought up a possible Russian match, because I was toying with the idea of a match between their daughter Charlotte (or possibly Mary) and Alexander II. The Anglo-Russian relations weren't stellar but it wouldn't be impossible, and since Leopold fought for Russia in the Napoleonic Wars and got on pretty well with Alexander I and his sister Julianne married Grand Duke Konstantin, Alexander and Nicholas’ brother, (even though that marriage failed spectacularly) I feel like it could be fairly plausible. Any thoughts?
 
So, to make everything a little clearer (and make kids easier to match up), here's Charlotte and Leopold’s brood in my timeline:
  • George (November 5, 1817)
  • Alfred (December 3, 1818)
  • Charlotte (August 28, 1820)
  • Mary (November 18, 1822)
  • Frederick (April 29, 1824)
  • Augusta (January 14, 1826)
  • Arthur (June 18, 1828)
  • Louisa (April 23, 1831)
  • Henry (November 27, 1833)
  • Sophia (May 19, 1837)
Still obviously taking ideas and recommendations for all of the brood, and for any other extended family members! (Ie. What the hell to do with Albert?)
 
Query, would Charlotte be able to have more than one child given the complications that birth had?
 
Query, would Charlotte be able to have more than one child given the complications that birth had?

From what I understand (as a student nurse midwife), the reason Charlotte had such a complicated birth was the sheer size of the child. She was incredibly weak from the limited diet, lack of exercise, and forced bleedings her doctors put her on in order to reduce the size of the child (he was that big). If they had used forceps to remove the child, both she and the baby would have most likely survived and -we can assume, given her previously robust health- thrived. The only reason forceps weren't used is for some reason the obstetrician, Dr. Simms, was not allowed to see or examine the patient and was more or less literally sent for so that he could hang out outside the birthing room and give credentials to the actual birthing team, as it were. In this timeline, we're going to assume that Dr. Simms got in and got the baby out with minimal damage to Charlotte or the baby. (I rolled the dice on her living 5 times and each time both she and the baby survived, so I'm taking it as a sign from the universe and working with it lol)
 
From what I understand (as a student nurse midwife), the reason Charlotte had such a complicated birth was the sheer size of the child. She was incredibly weak from the limited diet, lack of exercise, and forced bleedings her doctors put her on in order to reduce the size of the child (he was that big). If they had used forceps to remove the child, both she and the baby would have most likely survived and -we can assume, given her previously robust health- thrived. The only reason forceps weren't used is for some reason the obstetrician, Dr. Simms, was not allowed to see or examine the patient and was more or less literally sent for so that he could hang out outside the birthing room and give credentials to the actual birthing team, as it were. In this timeline, we're going to assume that Dr. Simms got in and got the baby out with minimal damage to Charlotte or the baby. (I rolled the dice on her living 5 times and each time both she and the baby survived, so I'm taking it as a sign from the universe and working with it lol)
Lol fair, it seems really weird they didn’t let her obstetrician to see her. Somfive oregnancies, hows this shift Britain? I assume the crown keeps power at george iii levels?
 
Lol fair, it seems really weird they didn’t let her obstetrician to see her. Somfive oregnancies, hows this shift Britain? I assume the crown keeps power at george iii levels?

Yeah, I think they were trying to either save credit for themselves or set him up to take the fall a la "He didn't even come in the room!". Obviously, there are a lot of shifts, the most obvious being that there was no Victorian era and therefore none of the liberal influence of Albert; Leopold was fairly liberal, however, and usually leaned towards reform in politics, so a lot of Albert's legacy will most likely make it through. The crown will definitely keep more power, since Leopold was definitely invested in the powers of the monarch (since Charlotte died so young it's hard to know where she fell on this, but I'm going to assume she liked the idea of keeping some power). "Leopold was generally unsatisfied with the amount of power allocated to the monarch in the Constitution, and sought to extend it wherever the Constitution was ambiguous or unclear while generally avoiding involvement in routine politics" (James Chastain, Leopold I, 1999). This was about the Belgian monarchy but I'm gonna assume the drive is the same either way. Obviously the little baby and his siblings are gonna send massive butterflies through the world, so we're going to see a lot of changes all through Europe.
 
Yeah, I think they were trying to either save credit for themselves or set him up to take the fall a la "He didn't even come in the room!". Obviously, there are a lot of shifts, the most obvious being that there was no Victorian era and therefore none of the liberal influence of Albert; Leopold was fairly liberal, however, and usually leaned towards reform in politics, so a lot of Albert's legacy will most likely make it through. The crown will definitely keep more power, since Leopold was definitely invested in the powers of the monarch (since Charlotte died so young it's hard to know where she fell on this, but I'm going to assume she liked the idea of keeping some power). "Leopold was generally unsatisfied with the amount of power allocated to the monarch in the Constitution, and sought to extend it wherever the Constitution was ambiguous or unclear while generally avoiding involvement in routine politics" (James Chastain, Leopold I, 1999). This was about the Belgian monarchy but I'm gonna assume the drive is the same either way. Obviously the little baby and his siblings are gonna send massive butterflies through the world, so we're going to see a lot of changes all through Europe.
Alright interesting, I look forward to seeing how Charlotte handles things like the reform crisis, etc
 
I wrote a rough timeline on this idea and this was the section on Charlotte's son - like others before, I had Charlotte and Leopold only having a single child...

Name: Francis George Augustus
Reign: 1878 - 1885
Life: 1817 - 1885
Consort: Princess Alexandrine of Baden
Issue: (1) Prince Leopold Ernest Francis

Their Deal:

George V was born under otherwise traumatic circumstances and very nearly died the night of his birth - but he survived and was brought up by parents who doted upon him. His grandfather, George IV, had never been the most attentive father and this didn't change with his grandsons birth. As such he was much more influenced by his fathers side of the family and his father specifically. At the age of thirteen, his father Leopold was crowned King of the Belgians and the heir to the British throne also became the heir to the Belgian throne. It would be a long time until he attained either - his father died in 1865 and his mother not until 1878. King of the Belgians at 48, King of the United Kingdom at 61 and dead by 68.

He was officially created as Prince of Wales shortly before he turned 21, as part of his mothers birthday celebrations.

George V often felt that he might as well have been the spare rather than the heir - his life was fifty years of waiting for his parent to die so that he could rule. Nonetheless he did his duty and married Princess Alexandrine of Baden who had previously been destined to marry his cousin, Ernest of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfield and Gotha, and produced an heir (but only one) of his own: Prince Leopold Ernest Francis, named after his father, maternal and paternal grandfathers (Francis, Dukr of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfield and Gotha and Leopold, Grand Duke of Baden) and his godfather (the aforementioned Ernest of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfield and Gotha).

The influence of his fathers family expanded to his political leanings - much like his father, he encouraged economic modernisation. After the creation of Belgium's first railway in 1835, Prince Francis (as he was then, and at the age of only 18) petitioned his mother to press her government into encouraging railway development and reform in the United Kingdom. His friendship with married mathematician and computer pioneer Ada Lovelace led to questions about her marital fidelity - and the Prince's own as he had married in 1842. He also attended the Royal Institution Christmas Lectures for many years - from 1835 until his death with only a rare absence. After the first - the 1835 lecture in which Michael Faraday discussed electricity - he arranged a private meeting with Faraday and remained a supporter of the scientist, writing to him for the next 32 years until the scientists death in 1867.

He enjoyed a similar friendship with Isambard Kingdom Brunel and attended the launch of the SS Great Western in July 1837. The Prince had everything going for him with regards to becoming a progressive and respected monarch. And after being King of Belgium prior to the death of his mother and his accession, he was coming to the role with thirteen years worth of experience of being monarch and interacting with parliament. Early signs were that King George V would have continued his programmes of modernisation - he championed the construction of Tower Bridge (although construction did not begin until after his death) and the Mersey Railway Tunnel (not opened until after his death) and helped found the Royal College of Music, opening it in 1883 with his wife, Queen Alexandrine.

His influence carried further than encouraging economic and technical advancement. He was offered numerous trading colonies of the Congo Basin as his personal property outside of the control of the Belgian government and its finances. He refused and the colonies were officially ceded to the Belgian government and operated as colonies of the state. That was only his first move. His next came after taking part in the first state visit of a ruling British monarch to the United States in 1876 as part of their centennial celebrations - although the visit itself caused some tension, it led to a correspondence between King George and the American Presidents (Ulysses S. Grant at the time of his visit, subsequently Rutherford B. Hayes, briefly James A. Garfield and finally Chester A. Arthur) which continued through their respective successors - modern political historians consider this state visit as the start of the 'special relationship' between the two countries. Having seen how the slave trade had fractured an entire country, he determined to take it upon himself to almost single-handedly block the expansion of the European powers into Afria.

At the Berlin Conference in the Prussian capital in late 1884, the King had planned to force through a gentleman's agreement between the leaders of the major European powers for them all to subscribe to a plan that, outside of the establishment of limited trading colonies such as those he had previously ceded to the Belgian government, they would not seek to occupy or further colonise the African continent. However, King George did not attend the conference (but he was represented by his son, the future King Ernest) as he had been diagnosed with inoperable lung cancer shortly before he had been due to set off and died less than ten months later on 13th July 1885. His funeral took place two weeks later. A funeral procession through London ended up with him being buried at St George's Chapel in Windsor Castle. He was survived by wife, Queen Alexandrine, who was styled as Queen Alexandrine, the Queen Mother through the reign of her son, King Ernest, until her death on 20th September 1904.

Succeeded By: King Ernest
 
Possibly not - but I was going down the route that they would want to have the built in support and defence that Britain could lend.

It also began the conglomeration of crowns under the British monarchy that would have repercussions later on.
 
Possibly not - but I was going down the route that they would want to have the built in support and defence that Britain could lend.

It also began the conglomeration of crowns under the British monarchy that would have repercussions later on.

Hmm interesting, would the other great powers accept that? After all, when Greece got Independence they agreed that no one from Britain, France or Russia would ever ascend the throne.
 
Not his older brother?

Hard to say - he seems to have been in the Russian orbit before his marriage, so I was thinking it was a plan of his parents

And I noted that Alexander was at one point linked with [Queen] Victoria so being linked with Charlotte's elder daughter seemed a likely ATL comparison
 
I would certainly think this guy would be a good match for one of the daughters

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Alexander_of_the_Netherlands

He was linked with Queen Victoria, as I understand it, because he was a second son and therefore a 'spare', so in theory she wouldn't have to worry about Britain and the Netherlands being joined like she would have if she had married his elder brother. Since Charlotte and Leopold have 5 boys inheriting in front of their eldest daughter in this timeline, I figure they aren't really worried about her inheriting.

Given Leopold's desire for a Coburg under every crown, he would probably try to go for the heir and not the spare, unless somehow a daughter stood in line to inherit. I am toying with his older brother for Mary, the second daughter, but I also perversely like Charles XV of Sweden... mainly because I want to save Charles' wife Louise, who I genuinely feel bad for, and hopefully can give a good marriage with one of Leopold and Charlotte's sons (she checks a lot of dynastic boxes: Prussian mother and grandmother, her father was made heir to Luxembourg and offered the Greek throne, cousin to kings and grand duchesses and etc).

But considering that two of Victoria's children married cousins in OTL (Victoria, the Princess Royal, married Friedrich III of Prussia and her younger brother Arthur, The Duke of Connaught, married her husband's cousin Princess Luise Margarete of Prussia) and the history of good relations and alliances between Britain and the Netherlands, I might just go for Wilhelm III and Princess Louise.
 
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Hard to say - he seems to have been in the Russian orbit before his marriage, so I was thinking it was a plan of his parents

And I noted that Alexander was at one point linked with [Queen] Victoria so being linked with Charlotte's elder daughter seemed a likely ATL comparison

This is very true.
 
I think Sophie of Württemberg is the most likely candidate; she's liberal, connected to many royal houses (including Russia) and was the daughter of the woman who brought Charlotte and Leopold together in the first place. Plus she's also linked to the British royal house slightly; her step-grandmother was the Princess Royal, George III's eldest daughter. That make's Sophia a step-cousin to Charlotte.

For Friedrich Wilhelm IV and Elisabeth, the only recorded pregnancy (from the German Wikipedia) was a miscarriage in 1828 that rendered her sterile. Not sure if there were any previous pregnancies though. Second, the marriage was actually proposed in 1819, with a wedding date of 1820, but Elisabeth's refusal to convert to Protestantism led to about four years of negotiations between Berlin and Munich to find a compromise solution. So you could have Elisabeth agree to convert much earlier (she finally converted in 1829 after being tutored in the reformed faith and convinced of it's merits of her own volition) and the match taking place in 1820 as scheduled, with earliest birth in 1821 (or 1820 if the wedding happens early in the year). Or you could have Charlotte instead marry the other major Protestant power, the Netherlands. Willem III would need a bride and an Anglo-Dutch marriage could smooth over Charlotte's refusal to marry Willem II in 1814.

@ The_Most_Happy, I've actually considered (and have written some notes) for two TLs in the era your writing in (one's a liberal enlightened idea and the other is a Reactionary Britain idea), so I hope you don't mind some unsolicited advice. First, thirteen years separate your POD and Charlotte's TTL accession, so there's no guarantee that Charlotte will be in the same situation that her uncle was at his OTL accession. By that I mean that the Reform crisis came about after the success of the July Revolution in France. The Reformists/radicals were emboldened and the establishment was horrified. So here the July revolution might fail or happen differently (for example, you could have Charles X's son the Duc de Berry survive his assassination in 1820 and let France stay on the constitutionally moderate path it had been on in the late 1810s). Second, if the reform crisis happens as OTL, I'd say the Queen has a very unique opportunity to boost the Crown's powers.

Finally, I think you're the first person to have Charlotte produce a brood like cousin Victoria or grandmother Charlotte, which is kinda surprising. I'll admit I'd never really given it a thought, her having lots of children I mean; guess we all just went with the idea that a surviving Charlotte would have had her fertility damaged/destroyed by the traumatic birth in 1817. But really there's no reason to think that way, considering her grandmother had 15(!) children, Victoria had nine and her husband was one of the incredibly fertile Coburgs. Very much looking forward to reading your TL.
 
@Emperor Constantine,

First of all, I love unsolicited advice, so keep it coming! I know I have a lot of stuff to work out, but my brain can only focus on one part at a time and it's latched onto matching everyone up first. I would love your input on the other stuff (July monarchy, reformists / radicals, etc) and messaged you about it.

I think I am the first one to have Charlotte produce a brood, because I always found it genuinely weird that everyone kept her to one kid if she lived. Her family and her husband's family were all noted for their fertility and the next Hanover-Coburg marriage proved to be extremely fertile, so it made sense to me. Her labor was tramatic but it was traumatic due to stupid doctors, a missing OB, and a ridiculously large child. I'm studying to be a midwife and from what I can understand, it would be traumatic and probably cause some tearing, but not in a way I could see limiting her having more kids.

And yeah, Sophie of Wurttemberg is absolutely perfect. I just need to find nine other spouses haha
 
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