In answer to an earlier question the A frame on the bow of this ship is AFAIK, for the towing of Paravanes for mine protection (not clearance), once the two paravanes were streamed the A frame was lowered so that the point of towing attachment was below the waterline on the forefoot of the ships bow.
In answer to an earlier question the A frame on the bow of this ship is AFAIK, for the towing of Paravanes for mine protection (not clearance), once the two paravanes were streamed the A frame was lowered so that the point of towing attachment was below the waterline on the forefoot of the ships bow.
HMS Jervis seen following her 1923 refit.
Following the Battle of Jutland, work on the Admiral Class Battlecruisers was halted whilst the design was looked at to incorporate as many lessons from the battle as possible. Whilst HMS Hood was too far along for significant changes the other three of the class were still barely started and could be altered. The other Admiral class Battlecruisers, Jervis, Howe and Anson would change into somewhat different ships and were the first British capital ships to use triple turrets for their 15-inch Mk 1 guns, giving them a 9 gun broadside. Using the success of the small tube boilers aboard HMS Courageous, the Admiral's would also use these higher pressure and lighter engines whilst armour was based on the American all-or-nothing scheme with particular attention paid to the magazines and engineering spaces.
The class was 860 (oa) long, 104 feet deep and 29ft wide and displaced 43,100 tons with 151,000shp for 32kts. Making them slightly lighter than the Hood. The main belt was 'only' 12-inches thick but thanks to its 25 degree angle, offered protection against 15-inch gunfire although there was some criticism that the 4-inch thick deck was too thin and this would later be increased to 6-inches over the machinery spaces and magazines.
The Jervis and her three sisters also featured the first use of turrets for her secondary battery, with 6 x 6-inch guns mounted in paired turrets on each side although these were only protected by splinter proof shields.
Popular ships to serve on despite concerns about their complex machinery, the Jervis, Howe and Anson were allowed to be completed under the Washington Naval Treaty as the UK offered to decommission all its non 15-inch gunned ships as soon as was practicable in the drawdown following The Great War, along with America and Japan being allowed to complete an extra 16-inch gunned ship a piece whilst the UK was allowed to build two of their own.
The Jervis and her sisters would be fitted with 6 x 4.7-inch AA guns and 4 x Octuple 2lb Pom-Pom mounts in 1922 when their deck armour was also strengthened and together the four Admiral class Battlecruisers were considered the finest units in the fleet by the public thanks to their size and handsome profile. The failure of the London Naval Treaty and the growing militarism of Germany ensured that all four ships would be modernised again, going into refit in pairs in 1936 which would see their secondary guns removed and replaced with 8 x dual 4.5-inch DP mounts as well as additional AA guns being installed and more modern fire control. The Hood and Jervis would finish their refits late in 1937 and Anson and Howe were rushed in as quickly as possible shortly after, their refits being completed in September 1939 as war finally broke out in Europe once more as Nazi Germany invaded Poland.
HMS Nelson as complete in 1926
The first British Battleships armed with 16-inch guns, the Nelson and her sistership the Rodney were the RN's 16-inch gunned Treaty Battleships and massed 34,800 tons. Unlike the Jervis and her three sisters, the Nelson's didn't use triple turrets but instead used paired mounts and were rather conservative in that regard athough they did incorperate turret mounted secondary guns as well as a new bridge layout that would become common on other ships when they were refitted.
Although only capable of 23 knots, the Nelson featured a thick 14-inch angled belt that offered protection against 16-inch gunfire and a thick 7-inch deck over her magazines and engineering spaces was proof against the heaviest shells. Anti-aircraft armament was heavy for the time and each ship had 6 x Octuple 2-lb Pom-Pom mounts as well as four dual 3.7-inch AA mounts in recessed housings that would later help with the design of the BD mountings on RN Carriers and refitted battleships.
Initially the Navy wanted to use a lightweight, and high velocity shell for the 16-inch guns but opted for a heavier and lower velocity round which showed to have better ballistics and less barrel wear.
Although reciving less acclaim from the public, the Nelson's were the most heavily protected and well armed ships in the Royal Navy and even when the later Iron Duke class were laid down in 1936 their 15-inch Mk2 guns came close to rivalling the 16-inch Mk 1 for hitting power but not exceeding it.
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Tempt me not! I don't know enough about the treaties etc to do it justice.
Since the Hood still has her original 4x2 gun turrets, does this mean the 3x3s are considered a separate class?
HMS Hood was 860 feet long, 104 feet wide (breadth) with 29 foot of draught (depth below the water line). I presume you mean the same for HMS Jervis.
HMS Jervis seen following her 1923 refit.
The class was 860 (oa) long, 104 feet deep and 29ft wide and displaced 43,100 tons with 151,000shp for 32kts. Making them slightly lighter than the Hood. The main belt was 'only' 12-inches thick but thanks to its 25 degree angle, offered protection against 15-inch gunfire although there was some criticism that the 4-inch thick deck was too thin and this would later be increased to 6-inches over the machinery spaces and magazines.
The 3 x 3's are the main class, the Hood is a the sub-class, but they're all called the Admirals and can perform as a unit due to speed etc.
The three improved Admirals (and they would have a separate class name)should, like Hood be complete and entering service before the Washington conference begins. They would of course be retained but in exchange Tiger and 2 of the retained 13.5" Battleships would be scrapped.
HMS Benbow - Iron Duke class Fast Battleship.
With the collapse of the London Naval Treaty the UK still tried to set an example and designed its next generation of battleships to be small but powerful, massing around 35,000 tons (with the class actually coming in at over 38,000 tons due to some changes whilst being built as it became apparent that no one was going to follow the UK's lead and example) the Iron Duke's were a generational improvement upon the Nelson and Admiral classes.
Dimensions
707 ft (oa), 700 ft (wl) long, 103 ft beam, 28 ft draught (normal load)
Armed with 9 x 15-inch Mk 2 guns in three triple turrets the new gun could fire the older shells of the Mk 1 gun easing supply issues. The secondary battery was a point of contention, with a battery of 5.25 guns planned but there were already bottlenecks for this weapon as it was needed on the Dido class AA cruiser, each ship needing 8 of the guns and there was worries that diverting them to the battleships would slow the number of available escorts for the carriers and battleships. Instead 20 x 4.7in/45 Mk.X guns were mounted in paired BD mounts, there being five aside. These could engage surface and air targets and didn't cut into the supply of other guns due to the standardisation on the 4.5-inch gun for RN Destroyers.
AA armament was heavy for the time with 4 x Octuple 2-lb Pom-Pom mounts as well as 2 x quadruple .50cal Vickers machine guns. But as the air threat evolved this armament changed. By 1942 the class had 5 x Octuple Pom-Poms and 2 x quadruple 2pdr as well as 15 x 20mm Oerlikon cannons in single mounts. By 1944 this had grown to 7 x 8 and 2 x 4 2pdr as well as 6 x 2 and 33 x 1 20mm mounts. The final AA fits in 1945 mounted 5 x 8 & 2 x 4 2pdr and 15 x Single 40mm Bofors and 25 x 1 20mm Oerlikons.
The air group was 4 x Walrus spotter planes but these were largely eliminated by 1942 - 43 as the radar fit grew in size and scope
Armour protection was heavy.
Main belt: 15in tapering to 6in at bottom
Deck: 5-6in (2.5in forward, 4.5in over steering gear)
Main Turrets: 14-9in
Barbettes: 14in
Secondary Turrets: 1-0.5in
Bulkheads: 10-12in
Conning Tower: 4-3in
Torpedo Defence: 3-layer (air/liquid/air sandwich), totalling 1.5in thickness
And although 'only' armed with 15-inch guns compared to the American's 16-inch rifles and whatever was being built in Japan, the Iron Duke's were protected against 16-inch gunfire and with their smaller ships, the UK was able to construct them more quickly with HMS Iron Duke and HMS Centurion in active service by 1939 (although Centurion was undergoing trials until November) whilst HMS Benbow, HMS Orion and HMS Monarch would join the fleet in 41, 42, and 43 respectively.
WNT still happens, but the IJN gets one of the Tosa's as a Battleship, they still have Kaga and Akagi as CV's.
A misunderstanding has occurred, I think.
I was asking the question to the thread, not commenting on your concept.
HMS Benbow - Iron Duke class Fast Battleship.
With the collapse of the London Naval Treaty the UK still tried to set an example and designed its next generation of battleships to be small but powerful, massing around 35,000 tons (with the class actually coming in at over 38,000 tons due to some changes whilst being built as it became apparent that no one was going to follow the UK's lead and example) the Iron Duke's were a generational improvement upon the Nelson and Admiral classes.
Dimensions
707 ft (oa), 700 ft (wl) long, 103 ft beam, 28 ft draught (normal load)
Armed with 9 x 15-inch Mk 2 guns in three triple turrets the new gun could fire the older shells of the Mk 1 gun easing supply issues. The secondary battery was a point of contention, with a battery of 5.25 guns planned but there were already bottlenecks for this weapon as it was needed on the Dido class AA cruiser, each ship needing 8 of the guns and there was worries that diverting them to the battleships would slow the number of available escorts for the carriers and battleships. Instead 20 x 4.7in/45 Mk.X guns were mounted in paired BD mounts, there being five aside. These could engage surface and air targets and didn't cut into the supply of other guns due to the standardisation on the 4.5-inch gun for RN Destroyers.
AA armament was heavy for the time with 4 x Octuple 2-lb Pom-Pom mounts as well as 2 x quadruple .50cal Vickers machine guns. But as the air threat evolved this armament changed. By 1942 the class had 5 x Octuple Pom-Poms and 2 x quadruple 2pdr as well as 15 x 20mm Oerlikon cannons in single mounts. By 1944 this had grown to 7 x 8 and 2 x 4 2pdr as well as 6 x 2 and 33 x 1 20mm mounts. The final AA fits in 1945 mounted 5 x 8 & 2 x 4 2pdr and 15 x Single 40mm Bofors and 25 x 1 20mm Oerlikons.
The air group was 4 x Walrus spotter planes but these were largely eliminated by 1942 - 43 as the radar fit grew in size and scope
Armour protection was heavy.
Main belt: 15in tapering to 6in at bottom
Deck: 5-6in (2.5in forward, 4.5in over steering gear)
Main Turrets: 14-9in
Barbettes: 14in
Secondary Turrets: 1-0.5in
Bulkheads: 10-12in
Conning Tower: 4-3in
Torpedo Defence: 3-layer (air/liquid/air sandwich), totalling 1.5in thickness
And although 'only' armed with 15-inch guns compared to the American's 16-inch rifles and whatever was being built in Japan, the Iron Duke's were protected against 16-inch gunfire and with their smaller ships, the UK was able to construct them more quickly with HMS Iron Duke and HMS Centurion in active service by 1939 (although Centurion was undergoing trials until November) whilst HMS Benbow, HMS Orion and HMS Monarch would join the fleet in 41, 42, and 43 respectively.
What's the top speed on these? 26-27 knots?
RamscoopRaider
Donor
Amagi would have survived intact* as without the delay converting her to a carrier, she would be launched and off the stocks, hence not vulnerable to hull warping Owari and the materials for #13 would have been destroyed
*Amagi did survive in a way, her hull was sealed up and used as a flaoting pier, AFAIK she is still in use by the JMSDF right now
Indeed, hard to see squeezing more than that into a 38,000 ton hull at that point in time - well, without giving up something big.
The only reason they couldn't OTL was that they did not have enough long barrel 12" guns iirc.
Dreadnought being beaten to the punch is a general timeline idea I enjoy. Not really because what it actually causes shipbuilding or politics wise but because of alternate terminology (Pre-Satsuma, Super-Satsuma, Pre-(South) Carolina, etc.)
Driftless
Donor
When this idea has come up in the past, several points have been raised favoring HMS Dreadnought as the touchstone. All big guns, centralized fire control, and turbine power . It hit all the hot buttons that would define a modern capital ship. And it was built by the RN, the premier navy in the world.
By comparison, Satsuma and USS South Carolina were triple expansion engined and I don't have a clue about their fire control