Yeah, I'm not sure I am placing too much stock in that. Boeing really wants to sell fighter planes to India so they will tell them that. Of course, with what munitions and/or fuel load, what is the margin for error for the pilots, etc. All details that can be worked out at later dates. What could possibly go wrong?
Yeah, I'm not sure I am placing too much stock in that. Boeing really wants to sell fighter planes to India so they will tell them that. Of course, with what munitions and/or fuel load, what is the margin for error for the pilots, etc. All details that can be worked out at later dates. What could possibly go wrong?
Buying the components would be unlikely to save time since they still need to be manufactured, then shipped to Australia and the ship built. Since the UK yards are the most productive per man hour at this time to my knowledge i doubt building it in Australia will save time. Depends on when you order it however, if it's laid down in 1937 there might be some bottlenecks for specialized equipment. But i think spare slips exist and if it's built in say 1930-1931 there is a lot of spare capacity. One thing to consider is what the pod is and if there are any naval treaties in this ATL.
I meant like buy one in construction in the uk but instead of building it in australia allow it to be built and finished in the UK and then sailed to australia
Why an 88 mm AA/ secondary gun? Australia , would have gone with the standard British Empire 4 inch, most likely, in the dual mount.
RamscoopRaider
Donor
Honestly I believe them, thrust to weight for the SHornet is .93, compared to .97 for the Mig-29K which India has and .83 of the Su-33 which is STOBAR capable. So it has better T/W ratio than a known STOBAR aircraft, which supports Boeing's claim. Of course all the details would have to be worked out later
The British might not want to sell a ship that's already under construction, since they need it themselves. They would probably be happy to build a ship maybe built around the 4x2 15" guns available which would save some time. But when are you thinking that Australia starts negotiating with Britain about buyng a BB? Because if it's after 1937 then it might be a while before the ship is complete, since it would be a low priority if something like the OTL battle of France happens.
Probably around late 1920's eariler 1930's due to HMAS Australia being decommissioned and the Aussies successfully argued that they should be allowed one to due to japanese expanison
HMAS Anzac, Australia & New Zeland Aircraft Carrier laid down 1933
Displacement:
21,692 t light; 22,755 t standard; 29,185 t normal; 34,329 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(757.01 ft / 721.78 ft) x 94.82 ft x (28.22 / 32.06 ft)
(230.74 m / 220.00 m) x 28.90 m x (8.60 / 9.77 m)
Armament:
18 - 4.33" / 110 mm 45.0 cal guns - 40.96lbs / 18.58kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1933 Model
8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
32 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1.97lbs / 0.89kg shells, 2,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1933 Model
8 x Quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
32 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 150 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1933 Model
8 x Quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 802 lbs / 364 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 469.16 ft / 143.00 m 11.68 ft / 3.56 m
Ends: 1.97" / 50 mm 252.59 ft / 76.99 m 11.68 ft / 3.56 m
Upper: 1.97" / 50 mm 469.16 ft / 143.00 m 8.01 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
3.94" / 100 mm 469.16 ft / 143.00 m 25.49 ft / 7.77 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 88.58 ft / 27.00 m
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 1.97" / 50 mm
Forecastle: 1.97" / 50 mm Quarter deck: 1.97" / 50 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 19.69" / 500 mm, Aft 19.69" / 500 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 3 shafts, 139,987 shp / 104,431 Kw = 31.00 kts
Range 14,100nm at 20.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 11,574 tons
Complement:
1,116 - 1,451
Cost:
£6.477 million / $25.909 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 126 tons, 0.4 %
- Guns: 126 tons, 0.4 %
Armour: 5,248 tons, 18.0 %
- Belts: 983 tons, 3.4 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,742 tons, 6.0 %
- Armour Deck: 1,719 tons, 5.9 %
- Conning Towers: 804 tons, 2.8 %
Machinery: 4,079 tons, 14.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,739 tons, 23.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 7,493 tons, 25.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 5,500 tons, 18.8 %
- Hull above water: 5,500 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
46,103 lbs / 20,912 Kg = 1,135.2 x 4.3 " / 110 mm shells or 8.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.31
Metacentric height 7.5 ft / 2.3 m
Roll period: 14.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.02
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.21
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.529 / 0.548
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.61 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.87 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 50.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 29.56 ft / 9.01 m, 24.18 ft / 7.37 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 24.18 ft / 7.37 m, 18.80 ft / 5.73 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 18.80 ft / 5.73 m, 18.80 ft / 5.73 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 18.80 ft / 5.73 m, 18.80 ft / 5.73 m
- Average freeboard: 21.11 ft / 6.44 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 74.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 160.2 %
Waterplane Area: 46,833 Square feet or 4,351 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 151 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 129 lbs/sq ft or 632 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.07
- Longitudinal: 1.14
- Overall: 1.08
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Ordered in 1933 by Australia & New Zealand the one ship class was soon made into 2 due to rising tensions in the south-east Asian region. Both HMAS Anzac & Gallipoli were commissioned in 1937 but remained in Britain until 1940 because of training of air & ship crews and the outbreak of ww2. The ships served in the hunts against the Bismarck & graf spee
They reached Australia in 1941 along with HMAS Australia the newly commissioned battleship and served in the south-east region. The ship HMAS Anzac was damaged in the battle of midway after Kamkize planes hit her deck while an aircraft was refuelling & remained in repairs until 1945 while her sister HMAS Gallipoli was credited with the sinking of IJN Soryu, IJN Akagi, IJN Kongo & IJN Shinano. Both ships remained in service until 1970 when HMAS ANZAC was transferred to a training ship & HMAS Gallipoli was made into a floating museum.
Air Group in 1939-
36 × Fairey Swordfish, 34 × Blackburn Skuas
Airgroup in 1942-
35 x F4F Wildcats
15 x TBD Dauntless
15 x tbf avengers
Displacement:
21,692 t light; 22,755 t standard; 29,185 t normal; 34,329 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(757.01 ft / 721.78 ft) x 94.82 ft x (28.22 / 32.06 ft)
(230.74 m / 220.00 m) x 28.90 m x (8.60 / 9.77 m)
Armament:
18 - 4.33" / 110 mm 45.0 cal guns - 40.96lbs / 18.58kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1933 Model
8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
32 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1.97lbs / 0.89kg shells, 2,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1933 Model
8 x Quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
32 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 150 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1933 Model
8 x Quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 802 lbs / 364 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 469.16 ft / 143.00 m 11.68 ft / 3.56 m
Ends: 1.97" / 50 mm 252.59 ft / 76.99 m 11.68 ft / 3.56 m
Upper: 1.97" / 50 mm 469.16 ft / 143.00 m 8.01 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
3.94" / 100 mm 469.16 ft / 143.00 m 25.49 ft / 7.77 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 88.58 ft / 27.00 m
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 1.97" / 50 mm
Forecastle: 1.97" / 50 mm Quarter deck: 1.97" / 50 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 19.69" / 500 mm, Aft 19.69" / 500 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 3 shafts, 139,987 shp / 104,431 Kw = 31.00 kts
Range 14,100nm at 20.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 11,574 tons
Complement:
1,116 - 1,451
Cost:
£6.477 million / $25.909 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 126 tons, 0.4 %
- Guns: 126 tons, 0.4 %
Armour: 5,248 tons, 18.0 %
- Belts: 983 tons, 3.4 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,742 tons, 6.0 %
- Armour Deck: 1,719 tons, 5.9 %
- Conning Towers: 804 tons, 2.8 %
Machinery: 4,079 tons, 14.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,739 tons, 23.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 7,493 tons, 25.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 5,500 tons, 18.8 %
- Hull above water: 5,500 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
46,103 lbs / 20,912 Kg = 1,135.2 x 4.3 " / 110 mm shells or 8.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.31
Metacentric height 7.5 ft / 2.3 m
Roll period: 14.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.02
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.21
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.529 / 0.548
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.61 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.87 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 50.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 29.56 ft / 9.01 m, 24.18 ft / 7.37 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 24.18 ft / 7.37 m, 18.80 ft / 5.73 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 18.80 ft / 5.73 m, 18.80 ft / 5.73 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 18.80 ft / 5.73 m, 18.80 ft / 5.73 m
- Average freeboard: 21.11 ft / 6.44 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 74.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 160.2 %
Waterplane Area: 46,833 Square feet or 4,351 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 151 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 129 lbs/sq ft or 632 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.07
- Longitudinal: 1.14
- Overall: 1.08
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Ordered in 1933 by Australia & New Zealand the one ship class was soon made into 2 due to rising tensions in the south-east Asian region. Both HMAS Anzac & Gallipoli were commissioned in 1937 but remained in Britain until 1940 because of training of air & ship crews and the outbreak of ww2. The ships served in the hunts against the Bismarck & graf spee
They reached Australia in 1941 along with HMAS Australia the newly commissioned battleship and served in the south-east region. The ship HMAS Anzac was damaged in the battle of midway after Kamkize planes hit her deck while an aircraft was refuelling & remained in repairs until 1945 while her sister HMAS Gallipoli was credited with the sinking of IJN Soryu, IJN Akagi, IJN Kongo & IJN Shinano. Both ships remained in service until 1970 when HMAS ANZAC was transferred to a training ship & HMAS Gallipoli was made into a floating museum.
Air Group in 1939-
36 × Fairey Swordfish, 34 × Blackburn Skuas
Airgroup in 1942-
35 x F4F Wildcats
15 x TBD Dauntless
15 x tbf avengers
Then there should be no problems ordering from the UK unless there is a problem with a treaty. If it's after Australia adopts the Statue of Westminister i would assume that Australian BB's won't count towards the British tonnage in the WNT/LNT which removes one potential problem.
Before that i would say it might happen but depends on how they go about it. But i don't know enough about the details of the naval treaties to say for sure.
I don't think this really works it would have to be fully after the treaties, Nobody will really buy that any of the dominions are really separate and anyway under the treaties they cant sell or build BBs for others.
Agreed it was on paper allowed but nobody did and even selling 8" cruisers was restricted by the main navy's as much as possible. I simply cant think that US or Japan would real agree that Australia was independent, the treaty itself did not have any enforcement or arbitration so it would simply be if they protested and threatened to walk out if GB did it?
The SoDak design was about sixty feet longer than the Colorado-class battleships, so you could probably fit in an extra pair of 5"/38 turrets.
I think this would be the case here. This would eventually lead to other nations transferring their old warships to their clients. (Imagine one being transferred to Manchukuo or the Philippines). That's the end result of this entire thing being successful, I imagine.
Easily doing that. Was thinking if they could do two, but the actual benefits of doing so would not be good enough to necessitate squeezing that many in. At least they'd have about an extra 5 feet of space per turret, so perhaps better firing arcs and general protection? (if my measurements are correct, the blister on West Virginia that supported the secondaries was about 140 feet long. For the same distribution, about 35 feet would be needed at minimum). The torpedo bulge is a large concern as well, and how much the additional breadth would cover.
How badly might propulsion might fare in reducing the top speed? about the same reduction of speed as experienced by the others?
AU soviet ships? AU Soviet Ships!
Project 63 Oktyabrskaya Revolutsiya Class CGN.
These two massive cruisers (Oktyabrskaya Revolutsiya and Aurora) entered service in 1967 and 1968 as anti-aircraft escorts for the Moskva class anti-submarine cruisers and where the Soviet Unions first nuclear powered warships.
Displacement - 9,680 tons
Dimensions - 197.2/24.2/7.2m
Maximum speed - 32 knots
Powerplant - 2 x PWR driving 4 x turbines.
Armament;
2 x Twin SA-N-2 'Ganef' SAM Missile launchers
2 x Twin SA-N-3 'Goblet' SAM Missile launchers
2 x Twin SA-N-4 'Gecko' SAM Missile launchers
2 x Twin AK-725 57mm guns
4 x AK-630 30mm CIWS
2 x Triple 21-inch torpedo tubes
2 x RBU-1000
Helecopter platform.
Large and visually impressive if very cluttered due to the mass of sensors, radars and weapons fitted onto them, the Oktyabrskaya Revolutsiya class was powered by the same kind of reactors that powered the HEN (Hotel, Echo, November) nuclear submarines and were nicknamed the 'glowing twins' in Soviet service. Despite their reactors the pair continued to serve and recived a modest refit in 1974 where they were fitted with six SS-N-9 'Siren' SSM's and their associated radars. From 1976 they were seen escorting the Kiev class Aviation cruisers in the Northern Fleet as well as taking part in several major Soviet naval exercises. Unfortunately in 1983 a fire broke out in the reactor spaces of the Aurora following a serious malfunction. The fire killed 27 crew and gutted the aft of the ship and she was scuttled by an escorting destroyers torpedoes. An inspection of the Oktyabrskaya Revolutsiya's reactors found their own problems and the cruiser was decommissioned in 1985 and scrapped by 1988.
Project 1159 Krasnaia Class CGN.
Commissioned between 1970 and 1974 the three Krasnaia class ships Krasnaia Zvezda, Krasnoye Znamya and Krasnaya Ploschad were actually based on the preceding Kresta class cruisers but were stretched to fit a pair of modified submarine reactors that were in turn protected by 76mm of armour.
Displacement - 10,780 tons
Dimensions - 175.5, 19.6/7.2m
Maximum Speed - 35 knots
Powerplant - 2 x PWR driving 4 x turbines
Armament:
2 x Twin AK-176 76mm guns
8 x AK-630 CIWS
2 x Twin SA-N-3 'Goblet' SAM missile launchers
2 x Twin SA-N-4 'Gecko' SAM missile launchers
2 x Quad SS-N-9 'Siren' Anti-ship missiles
1 x Quad SS-N-14 anti-submarine missile launcher.
1 x RBU-1200
2 x Quintuple 21-inch torpedo tubes
2 x KA-25 helecopters in hangar.
Assigned to escort the Kiev class ships two served in the Northern fleet whilst one joined the Pacific Fleet as flagship. In 1983 all three were refitted and overhauled. The SS-N-9 was landed and replaced with the newly developed SS-N-25 'Harpoonski' whilst a quartet of quad SA-N-5 (navalised SA-7) SAMs were installed after it was noted that modern warships tended to lack protection against low flying aircraft after watching the events of the Falklands in 1982. And most surprisingly a quad cell launcher for the SS-N-21 SLCM was also installed, giving the Soviets their first land attack cruise missiles carried aboard warships. The class started to decomission from 1994 onwards owing to the arrival of the new Anchar class cruiser as well as growing concerns about the classes reactor safety.
Project 1199 Anchar class CGN.
Commissioned between 1996 and 2001 the four Anchar class ships (Varyag, Slava, Chervina Ukrania and Moskva) were built to replace the Project 1159 class cruisers and complement the expensive Kirov class Battlecruisers. Based on the Project 956 Sovremenny class they were larger and more heavily armed and of course, nuclear powered.
Displacement - 12,000 tons
Dimensions - 185, 20.7, 6.25m
Maximum speed - 32 knots
Powerplant - 2 x PWR with COGOG backup system.
Armament;
2 x AK-130 130mm guns
12 x Quadruple SA-N-7 VLS 'Gadfly' SAM (Later modified to fire SA-N-12 'Gladiator' and SA-N-17 'Genie' SAMs)
2 x Octuple VLS SA-N-9 'Grouch' SAM
4 x CADS-N-1 CIWS/SAM systems.
4 x Quadruple SS-N-25 'Harpoonski' SSMs.
1 x SS-N-29 'Sentry' Anti-Submarine missile launcher
2 x RBU-6000
2 x Helicopters with hangar.
These large and modern cruisers were evenly split between the Northern and Pacific fleets and often shadowed NATO exercises. During war time the plan was to use them as parts of powerful anti-shipping groups centred around a Kirov class ship and supported by aircraft from land or the Kiev II class CV and Ulyanovsk class CVNs.
Project 1143EMU Kiev II class CV
When the Soviet union finally gave up with the troublesome Yak-38 VSTOL and the abject failure of the YAK-41 that was meant to replace the old and unreliable Forger, the Soviet Union pulled the three Kiev II ships out of service to fully overhaul them and turn them into small carriers. The Kharkov, Novorossiysk and Baku were overhauled over a period of three years (96 - 99 for Kharkov, 99 - 2003 for Novorossiyks and 04 - 07 for Baku). All the forward missiles and guns were removed and the flight deck lengthened to 195 meters. A ski-jump was also installed instead of Catapults but this did limit the airgroup somewhat. The armament was completely reworked;
18 x Octuple VLS SA-N-17 'Genie' SAMs
6 x CADS-N-1 CIWIS/SAM systems
The Baku retained her 10 x SS-N-21 VLS tubes but the others had them removed.
The airgroup was changed to 18 x MiG-29M fighters for air defence and strike roles but the lack of a catapult did limit the armament that the fighters could carry and they would only be armed with AAM's during operations. Eight KA-27 or KA-40 helecopters were also carried onboard and the radar suite was completely overhauled. The failed Sky Watch 3D search array was removed and replaced with the new Flat Watch 3D array.
Project 1143 Krechyet Kiev Class CVG
The four ships of the class (Kiev, Minsk, Kharkov and Novorossiysk) entered service between 1975 and 1981 and were completed as curious hybrid missile cruisers and aircraft carriers. The Kharkov and Novorossiysk were built to a more modern standard and were armed with 2 x Octuple VLS launchers for the newly developed SA-N-9 instead of their SA-N-3 launchers. All four were refitted in 85 - 87 where they SS-N-12 launchers abreast their SA-N-3/SA-N-9 launchers were removed and replaced with two quadruple VLS launchers for the SS-N-21 SLCM and four SA-N-10 PDMS. Both Kharkov and Novorossiysk were refitted alongside the newly built Baku into the Kiev II standard whilst the Kiev and Minsk paid off in 1998. For several years there were rumors of a sale to China but this never materialized, but the Minsk was overhauled and rebuilt to the same standards as the Kharkov before being sold to India in 2011.
Project 1160 Ulyanovsk Class CVN
Displacement - 72,000 tons
Dimensions - 310.5, 78.2, 11m
Maximum speed - 32 knots
Powerplant - 2 x PWR powering 4 x Turbines
The heart of the naval policy study carried out by the famous Admiral Gorshkov in the 60's, the Admiral advocated for a new strategy for the Soviet Navy. Getting close to Premier Khrushchev and developing a friendship with him he sold the Premier on the idea of a 'mobile missile navy'. By 1965 the Soviet Union had recognised that SSBNs and surface launched nuclear missiles would give them a global reach and be harder to destroy than ground based missile launchers. Intiially though Khrushchev blocked any carrier production in favour of a powerful submarine fleet. But by the end of his reign the Red Navy managed to politically manouver him into ordering and authorizing a powerful surface fleet by pointing to the threat of the Royal Navies two new carrier groups and their escorting cruisers, and the development of the huge Nimitz class carriers in America.
To say this upset the VVS was an understatement as they faced loosing their strategic role and new bombers. As a compromise the VVS would control the Naval Airforce fighters, it gave up its TU-22M's to the Navy, but in turn would gain the TU-160 for the strategic role. The army also lost funds but the army shared SAM technology with the navy and in turn gained some radar technology as well as a number of overseas exports for its SAMs and the Navalised versions. Taking steps to evolve and grow the Soviets finally launched their first true carriers in 1981 with the launch of the four Uyanovsk class CVNs (Ulyanovsk, Riga, Tiblisi and Murmansk.).
The design had been in development since 1972 and had gone through many iterations before emerging as a conventional carrier. She had a 8.5 degree angled flight deck, 3 steam catapults (which had to be replaced twice due to reliability issues) and two deck edge lifts either end of the Island. All four ships had 18 octuple SA-N-9 SAM launchers and 2 octuple SA-N-6 SAM launchers. The first two had 8 x AK-630 CIWS and four quadruple SA-N-5 launchers whilst the last two had eight CAD-N-1 gun/SAM systems and a more modern electronics/sensor suite. Naval aircraft were first 36 x MiG-23K and 12 x MiG-27K but these were replaced with 48 x SU-33Ks (navalized SU-27s) when they became available. Other aircraft included 4 x YAK-44 AEW planes and 19 KA-27 Helicotpers.
By 1990 the plan drawn up by Admiral Gorshkov in the 60's had become the cornerstone of Soviet Naval power and had created one of the worlds most formidable fleets. But by 1990 it was clear the West had caught up with a series of potent missile systems, radars and ultra-quiet SSN's. The Wests resources and the digital revolution were pushing the West and NATO ahead and even small third world nations were building up fleets of small but heavily armed ships. So in 1990 a new plan was launched to help reinforce the Gorshkov Plan and would shift from the more traditional approach of sheer numbers to replacing older vessels now facing block obsolecense with more modern and capable units for a true multi-role navy. The start of the Soviet digital revolution in 1995 helped spur this plan on and helped with the development of much more compact missiles and a host of new radars. Like the VVS the Navy would become a highly skilled branch of the Soviet armed forces and the gap between the West and Soviet union would narrow to near parity by 2010.
Project 63 Oktyabrskaya Revolutsiya Class CGN.
These two massive cruisers (Oktyabrskaya Revolutsiya and Aurora) entered service in 1967 and 1968 as anti-aircraft escorts for the Moskva class anti-submarine cruisers and where the Soviet Unions first nuclear powered warships.
Displacement - 9,680 tons
Dimensions - 197.2/24.2/7.2m
Maximum speed - 32 knots
Powerplant - 2 x PWR driving 4 x turbines.
Armament;
2 x Twin SA-N-2 'Ganef' SAM Missile launchers
2 x Twin SA-N-3 'Goblet' SAM Missile launchers
2 x Twin SA-N-4 'Gecko' SAM Missile launchers
2 x Twin AK-725 57mm guns
4 x AK-630 30mm CIWS
2 x Triple 21-inch torpedo tubes
2 x RBU-1000
Helecopter platform.
Large and visually impressive if very cluttered due to the mass of sensors, radars and weapons fitted onto them, the Oktyabrskaya Revolutsiya class was powered by the same kind of reactors that powered the HEN (Hotel, Echo, November) nuclear submarines and were nicknamed the 'glowing twins' in Soviet service. Despite their reactors the pair continued to serve and recived a modest refit in 1974 where they were fitted with six SS-N-9 'Siren' SSM's and their associated radars. From 1976 they were seen escorting the Kiev class Aviation cruisers in the Northern Fleet as well as taking part in several major Soviet naval exercises. Unfortunately in 1983 a fire broke out in the reactor spaces of the Aurora following a serious malfunction. The fire killed 27 crew and gutted the aft of the ship and she was scuttled by an escorting destroyers torpedoes. An inspection of the Oktyabrskaya Revolutsiya's reactors found their own problems and the cruiser was decommissioned in 1985 and scrapped by 1988.
Project 1159 Krasnaia Class CGN.
Commissioned between 1970 and 1974 the three Krasnaia class ships Krasnaia Zvezda, Krasnoye Znamya and Krasnaya Ploschad were actually based on the preceding Kresta class cruisers but were stretched to fit a pair of modified submarine reactors that were in turn protected by 76mm of armour.
Displacement - 10,780 tons
Dimensions - 175.5, 19.6/7.2m
Maximum Speed - 35 knots
Powerplant - 2 x PWR driving 4 x turbines
Armament:
2 x Twin AK-176 76mm guns
8 x AK-630 CIWS
2 x Twin SA-N-3 'Goblet' SAM missile launchers
2 x Twin SA-N-4 'Gecko' SAM missile launchers
2 x Quad SS-N-9 'Siren' Anti-ship missiles
1 x Quad SS-N-14 anti-submarine missile launcher.
1 x RBU-1200
2 x Quintuple 21-inch torpedo tubes
2 x KA-25 helecopters in hangar.
Assigned to escort the Kiev class ships two served in the Northern fleet whilst one joined the Pacific Fleet as flagship. In 1983 all three were refitted and overhauled. The SS-N-9 was landed and replaced with the newly developed SS-N-25 'Harpoonski' whilst a quartet of quad SA-N-5 (navalised SA-7) SAMs were installed after it was noted that modern warships tended to lack protection against low flying aircraft after watching the events of the Falklands in 1982. And most surprisingly a quad cell launcher for the SS-N-21 SLCM was also installed, giving the Soviets their first land attack cruise missiles carried aboard warships. The class started to decomission from 1994 onwards owing to the arrival of the new Anchar class cruiser as well as growing concerns about the classes reactor safety.
Project 1199 Anchar class CGN.
Commissioned between 1996 and 2001 the four Anchar class ships (Varyag, Slava, Chervina Ukrania and Moskva) were built to replace the Project 1159 class cruisers and complement the expensive Kirov class Battlecruisers. Based on the Project 956 Sovremenny class they were larger and more heavily armed and of course, nuclear powered.
Displacement - 12,000 tons
Dimensions - 185, 20.7, 6.25m
Maximum speed - 32 knots
Powerplant - 2 x PWR with COGOG backup system.
Armament;
2 x AK-130 130mm guns
12 x Quadruple SA-N-7 VLS 'Gadfly' SAM (Later modified to fire SA-N-12 'Gladiator' and SA-N-17 'Genie' SAMs)
2 x Octuple VLS SA-N-9 'Grouch' SAM
4 x CADS-N-1 CIWS/SAM systems.
4 x Quadruple SS-N-25 'Harpoonski' SSMs.
1 x SS-N-29 'Sentry' Anti-Submarine missile launcher
2 x RBU-6000
2 x Helicopters with hangar.
These large and modern cruisers were evenly split between the Northern and Pacific fleets and often shadowed NATO exercises. During war time the plan was to use them as parts of powerful anti-shipping groups centred around a Kirov class ship and supported by aircraft from land or the Kiev II class CV and Ulyanovsk class CVNs.
Project 1143EMU Kiev II class CV
When the Soviet union finally gave up with the troublesome Yak-38 VSTOL and the abject failure of the YAK-41 that was meant to replace the old and unreliable Forger, the Soviet Union pulled the three Kiev II ships out of service to fully overhaul them and turn them into small carriers. The Kharkov, Novorossiysk and Baku were overhauled over a period of three years (96 - 99 for Kharkov, 99 - 2003 for Novorossiyks and 04 - 07 for Baku). All the forward missiles and guns were removed and the flight deck lengthened to 195 meters. A ski-jump was also installed instead of Catapults but this did limit the airgroup somewhat. The armament was completely reworked;
18 x Octuple VLS SA-N-17 'Genie' SAMs
6 x CADS-N-1 CIWIS/SAM systems
The Baku retained her 10 x SS-N-21 VLS tubes but the others had them removed.
The airgroup was changed to 18 x MiG-29M fighters for air defence and strike roles but the lack of a catapult did limit the armament that the fighters could carry and they would only be armed with AAM's during operations. Eight KA-27 or KA-40 helecopters were also carried onboard and the radar suite was completely overhauled. The failed Sky Watch 3D search array was removed and replaced with the new Flat Watch 3D array.
Project 1143 Krechyet Kiev Class CVG
The four ships of the class (Kiev, Minsk, Kharkov and Novorossiysk) entered service between 1975 and 1981 and were completed as curious hybrid missile cruisers and aircraft carriers. The Kharkov and Novorossiysk were built to a more modern standard and were armed with 2 x Octuple VLS launchers for the newly developed SA-N-9 instead of their SA-N-3 launchers. All four were refitted in 85 - 87 where they SS-N-12 launchers abreast their SA-N-3/SA-N-9 launchers were removed and replaced with two quadruple VLS launchers for the SS-N-21 SLCM and four SA-N-10 PDMS. Both Kharkov and Novorossiysk were refitted alongside the newly built Baku into the Kiev II standard whilst the Kiev and Minsk paid off in 1998. For several years there were rumors of a sale to China but this never materialized, but the Minsk was overhauled and rebuilt to the same standards as the Kharkov before being sold to India in 2011.
Project 1160 Ulyanovsk Class CVN
Displacement - 72,000 tons
Dimensions - 310.5, 78.2, 11m
Maximum speed - 32 knots
Powerplant - 2 x PWR powering 4 x Turbines
The heart of the naval policy study carried out by the famous Admiral Gorshkov in the 60's, the Admiral advocated for a new strategy for the Soviet Navy. Getting close to Premier Khrushchev and developing a friendship with him he sold the Premier on the idea of a 'mobile missile navy'. By 1965 the Soviet Union had recognised that SSBNs and surface launched nuclear missiles would give them a global reach and be harder to destroy than ground based missile launchers. Intiially though Khrushchev blocked any carrier production in favour of a powerful submarine fleet. But by the end of his reign the Red Navy managed to politically manouver him into ordering and authorizing a powerful surface fleet by pointing to the threat of the Royal Navies two new carrier groups and their escorting cruisers, and the development of the huge Nimitz class carriers in America.
To say this upset the VVS was an understatement as they faced loosing their strategic role and new bombers. As a compromise the VVS would control the Naval Airforce fighters, it gave up its TU-22M's to the Navy, but in turn would gain the TU-160 for the strategic role. The army also lost funds but the army shared SAM technology with the navy and in turn gained some radar technology as well as a number of overseas exports for its SAMs and the Navalised versions. Taking steps to evolve and grow the Soviets finally launched their first true carriers in 1981 with the launch of the four Uyanovsk class CVNs (Ulyanovsk, Riga, Tiblisi and Murmansk.).
The design had been in development since 1972 and had gone through many iterations before emerging as a conventional carrier. She had a 8.5 degree angled flight deck, 3 steam catapults (which had to be replaced twice due to reliability issues) and two deck edge lifts either end of the Island. All four ships had 18 octuple SA-N-9 SAM launchers and 2 octuple SA-N-6 SAM launchers. The first two had 8 x AK-630 CIWS and four quadruple SA-N-5 launchers whilst the last two had eight CAD-N-1 gun/SAM systems and a more modern electronics/sensor suite. Naval aircraft were first 36 x MiG-23K and 12 x MiG-27K but these were replaced with 48 x SU-33Ks (navalized SU-27s) when they became available. Other aircraft included 4 x YAK-44 AEW planes and 19 KA-27 Helicotpers.
By 1990 the plan drawn up by Admiral Gorshkov in the 60's had become the cornerstone of Soviet Naval power and had created one of the worlds most formidable fleets. But by 1990 it was clear the West had caught up with a series of potent missile systems, radars and ultra-quiet SSN's. The Wests resources and the digital revolution were pushing the West and NATO ahead and even small third world nations were building up fleets of small but heavily armed ships. So in 1990 a new plan was launched to help reinforce the Gorshkov Plan and would shift from the more traditional approach of sheer numbers to replacing older vessels now facing block obsolecense with more modern and capable units for a true multi-role navy. The start of the Soviet digital revolution in 1995 helped spur this plan on and helped with the development of much more compact missiles and a host of new radars. Like the VVS the Navy would become a highly skilled branch of the Soviet armed forces and the gap between the West and Soviet union would narrow to near parity by 2010.
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Alternate RN ships.
In 1966 the RAF won the ongoing strategic argument and the CVA-01 was cancelled, but in 1967 the RN argued more forcefully for what was called a 'strategic re-evaluation and appraisal' after the cancellation of the TSR and F-111 bomber force. Instead the future nuclear deterrent was to be the Polaris fleet as had been decided back in 1963. The RN argued to increase the number of Polaris equipped ships by two to ensure that two submarines would then be on patrol at any one time. The navy also argued forcefully to retain its carriers, highlighting they could be used as power projection assets outside of a nuclear war whilst also enabling them to act as an extension of the defences of the UK. Their escorts would serve as mobile SAM batteries and the carrier would act as a mobile airbase with fighters intercepting manned Soviet bombers whilst also being able to attack Soviet Naval bases and help hunt for enemy surface ships and submarines.
Also if the Commonwealth called for aid and assistance, the carriers could be used to help protect them and be used as mobile bases for disaster relief. In the end two carriers and their escorts were authorized along with two new SSBNs.
CVA-01 - R01 Queen Elizabeth, RO2 Ark Royal
Displacement 50,200 tons
Dimensions 293.52/37.19/9.2
Maximum speed - 30 knots
Powerplant 6 x Rolls Royce Olympus turbines.
A new design that eliminated some of the shortcomings of the cancelled CVA-01 design from 1966, the main change being the removal of the Sea Dart SAM and a reshaping of the Island to reduce its size and length after extensive wind tunnel tests found the original CVA-01 designs bridge could have affected the ships stability. The original engines were also replaced with the newly developed COGAG (COmbined Gas And Gas) that would be used on all future RN surface ships as it reduced manpower and was found to be reliable. The defensive armament was limited to Four Sea Cat launchers but these were replaced in 1980 with Goalkeeper CIWS mounts. The airgroup was initiall a mix of Phantom and Buccaneer aircraft (24 and 12 aircraft respectively) supported by 8 Gannet AEW and ASW aircraft but these retired in 1975 and were replaced by 8 Sea King in both roles. In 1978 the Navalised version of the Tornado entered service and was in fleet service by 1980 although the Buccaneer soldiered on until 1994 as even the Tornado could not perform as well at low altitude with so heavy a bomb load.
Type 82 Guided Missile cruisers
Displacement - 6,400 tons
Dimensions - 154.5, 16.8, 7m
Maximum speed - 31 knots
Armament
2 x dual Sea Dart SAM launchers with ASROC capability.
2 x quad Sea Cat SAM launchers
1 x dual 4.5-inch gun
2 x 20mm guns
2 x triple 12.75-inch torpedo tubes
1 x Helipad.
Built to escort the new carriers the four Type 82's (Bristol, Belfast, Southampton and Liverpool) always operated in pairs with the new carriers and were their main line of defence if an enemy managed to evade the carriers aircraft. Built as pure AA escorts the Bristols were never fitted with the Exocet missile. All four were refitted in 1982 with the addition of 2 x Goalkeeper CIWS and two quad Blowpipe missile launchers. A further refit in 1986 saw the addition of two quadruple launchers for AGM-64 Harpoon SSM's but the class started to retire from 1996 onwards and were replaced with the new City Class cruisers as they were completed.
In 1966 the RAF won the ongoing strategic argument and the CVA-01 was cancelled, but in 1967 the RN argued more forcefully for what was called a 'strategic re-evaluation and appraisal' after the cancellation of the TSR and F-111 bomber force. Instead the future nuclear deterrent was to be the Polaris fleet as had been decided back in 1963. The RN argued to increase the number of Polaris equipped ships by two to ensure that two submarines would then be on patrol at any one time. The navy also argued forcefully to retain its carriers, highlighting they could be used as power projection assets outside of a nuclear war whilst also enabling them to act as an extension of the defences of the UK. Their escorts would serve as mobile SAM batteries and the carrier would act as a mobile airbase with fighters intercepting manned Soviet bombers whilst also being able to attack Soviet Naval bases and help hunt for enemy surface ships and submarines.
Also if the Commonwealth called for aid and assistance, the carriers could be used to help protect them and be used as mobile bases for disaster relief. In the end two carriers and their escorts were authorized along with two new SSBNs.
CVA-01 - R01 Queen Elizabeth, RO2 Ark Royal
Displacement 50,200 tons
Dimensions 293.52/37.19/9.2
Maximum speed - 30 knots
Powerplant 6 x Rolls Royce Olympus turbines.
A new design that eliminated some of the shortcomings of the cancelled CVA-01 design from 1966, the main change being the removal of the Sea Dart SAM and a reshaping of the Island to reduce its size and length after extensive wind tunnel tests found the original CVA-01 designs bridge could have affected the ships stability. The original engines were also replaced with the newly developed COGAG (COmbined Gas And Gas) that would be used on all future RN surface ships as it reduced manpower and was found to be reliable. The defensive armament was limited to Four Sea Cat launchers but these were replaced in 1980 with Goalkeeper CIWS mounts. The airgroup was initiall a mix of Phantom and Buccaneer aircraft (24 and 12 aircraft respectively) supported by 8 Gannet AEW and ASW aircraft but these retired in 1975 and were replaced by 8 Sea King in both roles. In 1978 the Navalised version of the Tornado entered service and was in fleet service by 1980 although the Buccaneer soldiered on until 1994 as even the Tornado could not perform as well at low altitude with so heavy a bomb load.
Type 82 Guided Missile cruisers
Displacement - 6,400 tons
Dimensions - 154.5, 16.8, 7m
Maximum speed - 31 knots
Armament
2 x dual Sea Dart SAM launchers with ASROC capability.
2 x quad Sea Cat SAM launchers
1 x dual 4.5-inch gun
2 x 20mm guns
2 x triple 12.75-inch torpedo tubes
1 x Helipad.
Built to escort the new carriers the four Type 82's (Bristol, Belfast, Southampton and Liverpool) always operated in pairs with the new carriers and were their main line of defence if an enemy managed to evade the carriers aircraft. Built as pure AA escorts the Bristols were never fitted with the Exocet missile. All four were refitted in 1982 with the addition of 2 x Goalkeeper CIWS and two quad Blowpipe missile launchers. A further refit in 1986 saw the addition of two quadruple launchers for AGM-64 Harpoon SSM's but the class started to retire from 1996 onwards and were replaced with the new City Class cruisers as they were completed.
