Because of something written in 1922?.... that and the only three 18" ships didn't get to do much due to aircraft getting in the way. (Y&M + F)
I got a month free of Amazon Kindle Unlimited, any naval books that come to mine that you guys know are on that right now that I can read?
A revision of an earlier idea with an earlier PoD
HMS Resistance
The third and last of the Renown Class Battlecruisers, these ships were initialy conceived as an improvement
to the Revenge Class Battleships. The design was revised several times until finalised as a battlecruiser.
Although armed to the standard of the Revenge Class, these ships were initially lightly armoured as per their
role as battlecruisers. Their impressive top speed of around 30 knots owed much to the small tube boilers
that had once been proposed for the Queen Elizabeth Class.
She and her sister ships were virtually rebuilt in the years leading up to the Second World War, and were now armoured to Battleship standards.
The Renown herself entered popular fame during sinking the battlecruiser Gneisenau in an engagement with both her and the Scharnhorts in 1940.
The Resistance complted her refit in early 1941 and was involved in the battle which sunk the Bismarck. The ships responsible
for the sinking, the Battleship Prince of Wales, the aircraft carrier Glorious, and Resistance herself were later organised into
Force V, a naval taskforce responsible for holding Singapore. When the city was evacuated in April 1942, force V was s part of the
Eastern Fleet defending the Indian Ocean. She was sunk along with the Glorious at the Battle of Nicobar in early June 1942.
HMS Resistance
The third and last of the Renown Class Battlecruisers, these ships were initialy conceived as an improvement
to the Revenge Class Battleships. The design was revised several times until finalised as a battlecruiser.
Although armed to the standard of the Revenge Class, these ships were initially lightly armoured as per their
role as battlecruisers. Their impressive top speed of around 30 knots owed much to the small tube boilers
that had once been proposed for the Queen Elizabeth Class.
She and her sister ships were virtually rebuilt in the years leading up to the Second World War, and were now armoured to Battleship standards.
The Renown herself entered popular fame during sinking the battlecruiser Gneisenau in an engagement with both her and the Scharnhorts in 1940.
The Resistance complted her refit in early 1941 and was involved in the battle which sunk the Bismarck. The ships responsible
for the sinking, the Battleship Prince of Wales, the aircraft carrier Glorious, and Resistance herself were later organised into
Force V, a naval taskforce responsible for holding Singapore. When the city was evacuated in April 1942, force V was s part of the
Eastern Fleet defending the Indian Ocean. She was sunk along with the Glorious at the Battle of Nicobar in early June 1942.
Strange design, especially with the very close spacing of the two relatively thick funnels, whcih logically would have been reduced to just one stack. I also wonder how the decklevel turret is going to fit in teh shallow draught ship and still be able to get served by magazine and powderstorage. (No space internally for a two level option as in cmmon battleships, but likely a spreaded singel level option, which als is complicated by the second turret in close proximity.
Driftless
Donor
The USN described it's first forays into pre-dreadnought battleships as "sea-going coastal defense" warships... The games people play...
I really don't see why its any better than the original 13.5" ships? Why would it be worth the extra cost of scraping and replacing them to get a less powerful ship?
If LNT fails to get agreed I can see two options,
- Japan agrees unofficially not to lay down anything due to the depression, this leads to just keeping old ships.
- Japan builds new ships and RN/USN match them with fully new 16"/35,000t unless Japan agreed to be smaller?
I don't think I have posted this here before,
After the WNT the Admiralty ('prompted' by politicians) started to look at second class battleships and the lower treaty limits such as 14 (or even 12") guns.
In the early/mid 30s the RN needed to rebuild its ship for the longer life now expected of them due to LNT and this combined with the new thinking about 14" guns made them offer a proposal to the cabinet, this was then accepted as a disarmament gesture that would be put into place before the 2LNT of 1936, after consulting with the USN and especially with the IJN in the hope of persuading them to keep to the treaty's (after 34 deceleration) and especially the new 2LNT under discussion (and specifically the 14" gun limit).
(With hindsight some think that it was a cunning ploy by a faction within the RN high command to get the better of the peace and disarmament factions in the cabinet and HMT)
Early in 1935 HMS Revenge and HMS Royal Sovereign both paid off for a normal scheduled refit, they completed in 1937 at the new 13.5" standard by now left orphans by the failure of Japan to sign the 2LNT.
Publicly regarded as a futile nieve disarmament gesture to the world, that sadly wasn't reciprocated. They disappeared into obscurity during WWII when they still served in minor roles mainly acting as convoy escorts in the North Atlantic during the first half of WWII and later being relegated to bombardment ships or even just to accommodation hulks. Generally forgotten like the other R class as the four KVGs and the other older 8 LNT ships did most of the high profile work. Historians at least record the amusing fact that HMS Revenges rebuilt 15" mounts did get into at least one of the main actions scoring the hits on Bismark that are credited with destroying him on 24 May 1941 even if it is of course officially credited to HMS Duke of York.
After the WNT the Admiralty ('prompted' by politicians) started to look at second class battleships and the lower treaty limits such as 14 (or even 12") guns.
In the early/mid 30s the RN needed to rebuild its ship for the longer life now expected of them due to LNT and this combined with the new thinking about 14" guns made them offer a proposal to the cabinet, this was then accepted as a disarmament gesture that would be put into place before the 2LNT of 1936, after consulting with the USN and especially with the IJN in the hope of persuading them to keep to the treaty's (after 34 deceleration) and especially the new 2LNT under discussion (and specifically the 14" gun limit).
(With hindsight some think that it was a cunning ploy by a faction within the RN high command to get the better of the peace and disarmament factions in the cabinet and HMT)
Early in 1935 HMS Revenge and HMS Royal Sovereign both paid off for a normal scheduled refit, they completed in 1937 at the new 13.5" standard by now left orphans by the failure of Japan to sign the 2LNT.
Publicly regarded as a futile nieve disarmament gesture to the world, that sadly wasn't reciprocated. They disappeared into obscurity during WWII when they still served in minor roles mainly acting as convoy escorts in the North Atlantic during the first half of WWII and later being relegated to bombardment ships or even just to accommodation hulks. Generally forgotten like the other R class as the four KVGs and the other older 8 LNT ships did most of the high profile work. Historians at least record the amusing fact that HMS Revenges rebuilt 15" mounts did get into at least one of the main actions scoring the hits on Bismark that are credited with destroying him on 24 May 1941 even if it is of course officially credited to HMS Duke of York.
Last edited:
Following on from the HMS Resistance post (is it possible to put an index in a thread you didn't start?)
HMS Howe
The H class were viewed as a disappointing compromise when they were first commissioned.
The building of the three Renown Class "Fully Armed Battlecruisers" represented a large industrial
commitment, using new technology in terms of engines, and tried and tested technology in terms of
guns, particularly gun calibre.
With the restrictions imposed by the nation's fianances and the washington naval treaty, the Royal Navy
chose the most conservative design for the modernisation programme from. The lessons of Jutland led to the
univeral adoption of the All or Nothing armour scheme for new battleships.
The proposed designs included an 18 inch gunned battleship, a 16 gunned battlecruiser or a 15 inch gunned
battlecruiser, all with three triple turrets. The smallest, cheapest design was chosen. However, the Washington
Naval Treaty also placed significant restrictions on the size of new designs, and so further compromises were made,
including a powerplant based on that of the Queen Elizabeth class, albeit incorporating the small tube boilers
of the Renown class battlecruisers. The H class battleships were faster than any other contemporary battleship
with a top speed of 26 knots.
Like the battlecruisers of the preceding class and the Queen Elizabeth Class battleships, both the Hood and the Howe
were rebuilt during the interwar years with more compact machinery, improved power generation, better armour, and
turrets improving the range. The guns themselves were also modernised for improved shells.
The Howe is most famous for being the only British battleship to singlehandedly sink another battleship during World War II.
What was overlooked at the time was that the Giulio Cesare was older, slower, lighter armed and lighter armoured, and
her task force was outnumbered and outgunned almost two to one, and that the convoy the Italians were protecting
made their destinaton more or less unopposed.
HMS Howe
The H class were viewed as a disappointing compromise when they were first commissioned.
The building of the three Renown Class "Fully Armed Battlecruisers" represented a large industrial
commitment, using new technology in terms of engines, and tried and tested technology in terms of
guns, particularly gun calibre.
With the restrictions imposed by the nation's fianances and the washington naval treaty, the Royal Navy
chose the most conservative design for the modernisation programme from. The lessons of Jutland led to the
univeral adoption of the All or Nothing armour scheme for new battleships.
The proposed designs included an 18 inch gunned battleship, a 16 gunned battlecruiser or a 15 inch gunned
battlecruiser, all with three triple turrets. The smallest, cheapest design was chosen. However, the Washington
Naval Treaty also placed significant restrictions on the size of new designs, and so further compromises were made,
including a powerplant based on that of the Queen Elizabeth class, albeit incorporating the small tube boilers
of the Renown class battlecruisers. The H class battleships were faster than any other contemporary battleship
with a top speed of 26 knots.
Like the battlecruisers of the preceding class and the Queen Elizabeth Class battleships, both the Hood and the Howe
were rebuilt during the interwar years with more compact machinery, improved power generation, better armour, and
turrets improving the range. The guns themselves were also modernised for improved shells.
The Howe is most famous for being the only British battleship to singlehandedly sink another battleship during World War II.
What was overlooked at the time was that the Giulio Cesare was older, slower, lighter armed and lighter armoured, and
her task force was outnumbered and outgunned almost two to one, and that the convoy the Italians were protecting
made their destinaton more or less unopposed.
Last edited:
I was wondering if someone could come up with a 5,000 ton limited monitor fitted with a turret from the Tennessee Class ACRs?
Driftless
Donor
Didn't several of the WW1 & 2 monitors also recycle the barbettes as well as the turret/guns? If that pattern is followed, there's some sizing issues to deal with on the height/width of the barbette.
Its for one of my TLs as there is a loophole in the ITL WNT for monitors under 5,000 tons and guns under 12 inches.
What defines a monitor in the treaty? i assume draught is one but is there a limitation on speed?