Alternate warships of nations

[jsb]

Courageous-class Large Light Cruisers

HMS Courageous,Glorious and Furious Laid down as real LLC after the cabinet got word of silly plans to build things with 15inch guns.

8 x 9.2 guns
14 x 5.5 guns

These ships didn't do much late in WW1 but they then contributed greatly to problems to the WNT negotiations, GB was not willing to get rid of such new and useful ships but nether was it willing to count them as real capital ships.

I have tried to sim them, (does anybody know how to spoiler the spring sharp hidden so not to take up to much room with blocks of text ?)
It makes them a bit slower than the real LLC but they are the same size/power so should be 31.5 Kn also upped the belt etc to invincible class BCs.


OLD SIM (added 1 more main gun etc.)

HMS C/G/F, GB LLC laid down 1915
Displacement:
17,677 t light; 18,426 t standard; 19,513 t normal; 20,383 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(786.00 ft / 786.00 ft) x 88.00 ft x (24.00 / 24.71 ft)
(239.57 m / 239.57 m) x 26.82 m x (7.32 / 7.53 m)
Armament:
6 - 9.45" (relined as the 9.2 are based on them) / 240 mm 50.0 cal guns - 446.70lbs / 202.62kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1915 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
14 - 5.50" / 140 mm 45.0 cal guns - 83.90lbs / 38.05kg shells, 200 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1915 Model
14 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
14 raised mounts
2 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 45.0 cal guns - 13.62lbs / 6.18kg shells, 300 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1915 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
2 double raised mounts
Weight of broadside 3,882 lbs / 1,761 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 6.00" / 152 mm 510.00 ft / 155.45 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
2.00" / 51 mm 510.00 ft / 155.45 m 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 72.00 ft / 21.95 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7.00" / 178 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 7.00" / 178 mm
2nd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 3.00" / 76 mm
Forecastle: 0.00" / 0 mm Quarter deck: 2.00" / 51 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 7.00" / 178 mm, Aft 7.00" / 178 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 90,000 shp / 67,140 Kw = 30.21 kts
Range 4,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,957 tons

Complement: 825 - 1,073 Cost: £2.082 million / $8.329 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 845 tons, 4.3 %
- Guns: 845 tons, 4.3 %
Armour: 5,243 tons, 26.9 %
- Belts: 1,516 tons, 7.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 755 tons, 3.9 %
- Armament: 650 tons, 3.3 %
- Armour Deck: 2,103 tons, 10.8 %
- Conning Towers: 219 tons, 1.1 %
Machinery: 3,409 tons, 17.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,180 tons, 41.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,836 tons, 9.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
35,851 lbs / 16,262 Kg = 85.0 x 9.5 " / 240 mm shells or 5.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.27
Metacentric height 6.4 ft / 1.9 m
Roll period: 14.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.30
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.51
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.411 / 0.417
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.93 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28.04 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 30.84 ft / 9.40 m, 25.23 ft / 7.69 m
- Forward deck: 50.00 %, 25.23 ft / 7.69 m, 25.23 ft / 7.69 m
- Aft deck: 15.00 %, 12.62 ft / 3.85 m, 12.62 ft / 3.85 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 12.62 ft / 3.85 m, 12.62 ft / 3.85 m
- Average freeboard: 21.90 ft / 6.67 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 90.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 220.9 %
Waterplane Area: 42,874 Square feet or 3,983 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 128 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 140 lbs/sq ft or 684 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.16
- Overall: 1.01
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

 

[eltf177]

I like those, they make a heck of a lot more sense than four 15-inch or two 18-inch guns.

Now if you can just add a bit more armor, like enough to keep out a 5.9-inch shell...

I definitely want to do an SS report on these!

 

[CalBear]

I think Tarrantry was my first introduction to naval A-H. Quite enjoyed it.

My approach to cruiser-carriers was the opposite, though I think now I didn't make the 150mm turrets large enough.

Man, a ramp strike would be dramatic on this ship.

Fun design though.

 

[Andras]

Early angled deck Essex with flight deck cut to 108' wide max for Panama Canal transit

 

[Some Bloke]

HMS King James VIII

The last of the three King Class Battleships, her history was fraught with complications even before her commissioning. Originally assigned the name Prince of Wales, this was changed following the change of title of her namesake, after King Edward VIII was killed in an air raid on London in 1940, and was succeeded by his eldest son.

Although compliant with the London Naval Treaty, they were specifically designed to be able to outperform any possible design the non compliant Germans and Italians may have been able to deploy. In the matter of main armament the designers were successful with the new 14 inch guns in three quadruple turrets. Her top speed of 30 knots was also equal to her competitors, but initially subject to leaks and other mechanical problems that plagued the early iterations of the high pressure steam plants. These were largely corrected in her "half sisters" HMS Prince Regent and HMS Princess Royal which mounted the triple 16" turrets intended for the Lion class.

Following Churchill's advice, the 14 year declined the style James III and started the convention that British monarchs use which ever ordinal number is higher from both the English and Scottish regnal lists, and causing no end of confusion for English school children.

She is best known for sinking the last of Germany's heavy surface units in November 1943. Following the sinking of the Tirpitz two months earlier, it was becoming clear that Germany's surface fleet could no longer contest the North Sea and the decision was made to relocate the fleet back to the Baltic to support the war effort against the Soviet Union, however, the British got wind of the development and intercepted the Germans off the coast of Værøy.

 

[Talwar]

Man, a ramp strike would be dramatic on this ship.

Fun design though.

It was supposed to be a 1924 design, so I had the "freedom" to not think of issues like that.

Having designed the ship for a political sim, I had the navy in question sour on the hybrid idea after a few years. They yanked the turrets and extended the flight deck during a mid-life refit.

 

[Talwar]

So that little carrier above is Urumi, which along with her sister Bichawa, was around 16,000 t full-load. She was laid down in 1924 with a planned air group of 40 aircraft, along with 2x3 150mm and 8x1 105mm.

This one below is the Trishula, which is 47,000 t full-load. She was laid down in 1945, with a planned air-group of 90 aircraft and 12x1 125mm DP. Theoretically, a near-sister Gadaa would follow in 1949 and would replace the two Urumi class in service.

 

[Some Bloke]

Very early independent/autonomising India?

 

[Talwar]

My half-arsed TL had:

-Aurangzeb being defeated by his son Dara Shikoh back in the late 1600s
-The Mughals remaining relatively united and competent enough to limit European incursions to coastal enclaves
-The British temporarily getting them under their thumb in the early 1800s
-Coming under German influence (with investment and modernization) in the late 1800s.
-A hard anti-colonial policy in the early 1900s and alignment with Japan.

 

[eltf177]

I like the rebuilt C/G/F-class. Armor's now on a par with Renown/Repulse - still a bit then but a lot better than OTL...

 

[sonofpegasus]

Intersting if the 9.2" gun Versions of F,C and G are still around to face a German pocket battleship one on one. Also if thie version of the ships exist post WW1 miight we see Tiger, Lion and Princess Royal converted to aircraft carriers in thier stead.

 

[Petike]

A shame that I still suck at drawing vehicles in GIMP. I'd like to contribute some ships too. I had this cool little modern frigate in the making for the navy of my fictional Grand Duchy of Lemuria from an older map game I participated in. But after nearly two years, it's still unfinished, and I feel stuck and don't know where to follow with the design. The details are made up of parts downloaded from Shipbucket, but I have trouble giving the ship a convincing shape and knowing where to mount various bits...

Do we have some tutorial somewhere on the board that advises how to draw modern warships more easily ?

 

[thaddeus]

a VERSION of an actual ship

Dithmarschen-class oiler/supply ship http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Conecuh_(AOR-110) (renamed in U.S. service)

built five out of a projected nine http://german-navy.de/kriegsmarine/ships/auxships/dithmarschen/history.html

to support Panzerschiffe or other surface vessels but what if , deciding an earlier war likely they are modified to support u-boats if needed.

never going to be as fast as S-boot or Capitani Romani-class but with already streamlined design effect of adding two (?) additional MAN diesel engines?

add torpedo tubes since they carried replenishment torpedoes for u-boats anyway.

 

[Some Bloke]

HMS Pegasus

The Pegasus was the first of the long serving War Emergency Air Craft carrier family. Following the Abyssinian Crisis in 1935, the Committee on Imperial Defence put forward a specification for an aircraft depot ship. This was laid down in 1938 as HMS Unicorn. The previous year however, the Comittee ordered a feasibility study to into the use of a similar design as a combat aircraft carrier. It was initially felt that the low top speed of 24 knots would make these ships of little utility in fleet operations, although the study was ammended in 1938 for a basic Trade Protection Aircraft carrier.

While Canada, Australia and the UK did convert merchantmen into what were later termed "Escort Carriers", the initial idea was never dismissed entirely. Following on from the study of converting merchantmen, the Committe then ordered an investigation into using merchant yards for constructing a purpose built aircraft carrier. The final pre specification was informally termed, the "Half Indom" due to the fact that it half the Indomitable class's aircraft capacity (for a total of 36 aircraft in hangar) and half the engine plant. The initial order had no armour or AAA and were capably of 25 knots. However, their had excellent comparmentalisation and an effective, if improvised torpedo defence system.

The first ship, HMS Pegasus, was ordered in March 1940 and laid down in December that year, commissioning in March 1943. She was the only allied aircraft carrier lost at the Battle of the Philippine Sea.

Her sister ships served in both the Royal Navy and with France as "Commando Carriers" until the 1970s where they were replaced with a purpose built design.

 

[jsb]

A shame that I still suck at drawing vehicles in GIMP. I'd like to contribute some ships too. I had this cool little modern frigate in the making for the navy of my fictional Grand Duchy of Lemuria from an older map game I participated in. But after nearly two years, it's still unfinished, and I feel stuck and don't know where to follow with the design. The details are made up of parts downloaded from Shipbucket, but I have trouble giving the ship a convincing shape and knowing where to mount various bits...

Do we have some tutorial somewhere on the board that advises how to draw modern warships more easily ?

I just used Paint and you should have a look at http://www.shipbucket.com, it has lots of ships to start from and parts sheets.
I found a few guides by Acelanceloet http://www.shipbucket.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3743&p=79044&hilit=guide+destroyer#p79044 etc.
Or just post and get feedback.

JSB

 

[Talwar]

A shame that I still suck at drawing vehicles in GIMP. I'd like to contribute some ships too. I had this cool little modern frigate in the making for the navy of my fictional Grand Duchy of Lemuria from an older map game I participated in. But after nearly two years, it's still unfinished, and I feel stuck and don't know where to follow with the design. The details are made up of parts downloaded from Shipbucket, but I have trouble giving the ship a convincing shape and knowing where to mount various bits...

Do we have some tutorial somewhere on the board that advises how to draw modern warships more easily ?

I'd suggest flipping through a copy of Jane's to see the various line-drawings. Get a sense of the proportions of the superstructure and where it's located, how much space the weapons systems need around them, etc. If you can find a historical analogue to your design, do a first draft by substituting your own hardware onto an existing drawing of the OTL ship.

I tend to find a lot of Shipbucket-y drawings suffer from creators trying to stuff too much equipment on to a hull.

 

[AlanJWhite]

as so often completely missing the point of OTL F,C anf G ious

I like those, they make a heck of a lot more sense than four 15-inch or two 18-inch guns.

they never were intended as any type of cruiser .. never intended to fight ships at all ...
their mission was shore bombardment as part of a possible forcing of the Baltic Narrows

a proper classification for them would be "Fast Monitors"

and for that even the 2x1 18" made sense ..as did their (relatively) shallow draught.

 

[perfectgeneral]

Earl Class (Treaty Aircraft Carriers)

In order to stay within the peacetime requirement of 135,000t of non-experimental Aircraft Carriers, the Admiralty decided to build a class of six with no armour. The plan being to weight them down with armour and ballast later to make a much larger displacement vessel.

Earl of Essex, Britain Fleet Aircraft Carrier laid down 1937

Displacement:
21,744 t light; 22,511 t standard; 29,066 t normal; 34,310 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
888.56 ft / 820.00 ft x 93.00 ft x 23.00 ft (normal load)
270.83 m / 249.94 m x 28.35 m x 7.01 m

Armament:
16 - 4.71" / 120 mm guns (8x2 guns), 52.24lbs / 23.70kg shells, 1937 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
Weight of broadside 836 lbs / 379 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 400

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 119,857 shp / 89,413 Kw = 31.00 kts
Range 20,000nm at 18.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 11,800 tons

Complement:
1,112 - 1,446

Cost:
£7.167 million / $28.666 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 104 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 3,322 tons, 11.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 13,317 tons, 45.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 7,322 tons, 25.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 5,000 tons, 17.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
85,854 lbs / 38,943 Kg = 1,643.3 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 5.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
Metacentric height 6.2 ft / 1.9 m
Roll period: 15.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.03
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.580
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.82 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 32.72 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 40.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 35.00 ft / 10.67 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 40.00 ft / 12.19 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 40.00 ft / 12.19 m
- Mid (50 %): 40.00 ft / 12.19 m
- Quarterdeck (20 %): 40.00 ft / 12.19 m
- Stern: 40.00 ft / 12.19 m
- Average freeboard: 40.00 ft / 12.19 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 60.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 390.7 %
Waterplane Area: 57,027 Square feet or 5,298 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 233 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 137 lbs/sq ft or 668 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.02
- Longitudinal: 3.23
- Overall: 1.14
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

As their draft increased, so did their cross-sectional strength. A four inch armour plate on the floor of the hanger and over the props and drive shafts protected them from air attack. While the filling of half the below waterline 'sandwich' compartments either side added ballast and anti-torpedo protection.

Refitted 1939 for war
Class of six
Earl of Essex, Britain Fleet Aircraft Carrier laid down 1935 (Engine 1936)

Displacement:
27,087 t light; 27,884 t standard; 35,177 t normal; 41,011 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
896.47 ft / 830.00 ft x 93.00 ft x 27.50 ft (normal load) (longer, because deeper in the water)
273.24 m / 252.98 m x 28.35 m x 8.38 m

Armament:
8 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.68lbs / 23.90kg shells, 1935 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
Weight of broadside 421 lbs / 191 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 400

Armour:

- Armour deck: 4.00" / 102 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 120,534 shp / 89,919 Kw = 30.23 kts
Range 20,000nm at 18.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 13,127 tons

Complement:
1,283 - 1,669

Cost:
£7.462 million / $29.848 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 53 tons, 0.1 %
Armour: 4,271 tons, 12.1 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armour Deck: 4,271 tons, 12.1 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 3,382 tons, 9.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 14,381 tons, 40.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 8,090 tons, 23.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 5,000 tons, 14.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
108,678 lbs / 49,295 Kg = 2,063.1 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 6.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.22
Metacentric height 6.4 ft / 2.0 m
Roll period: 15.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.01
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.580
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.92 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 32.88 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 40.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 35.00 ft / 10.67 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 37.50 ft / 11.43 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 37.50 ft / 11.43 m
- Mid (50 %): 37.50 ft / 11.43 m
- Quarterdeck (20 %): 37.50 ft / 11.43 m
- Stern: 37.50 ft / 11.43 m
- Average freeboard: 37.50 ft / 11.43 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 49.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 321.4 %
Waterplane Area: 57,723 Square feet or 5,363 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 214 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 149 lbs/sq ft or 726 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.11
- Longitudinal: 2.68
- Overall: 1.21
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

4 turbines driven by 6 admiralty 3 drum boilers
Armour added. Waterline raised. Cruise speed now one boiler in full operation.

Pretty much six Essex class within naval treaty limits. Glorious class held in reserve (naughty!) and worked up in 1939. All other carriers replaced by this class. Refit of Glorious class while in reserve aimed for this standard. Further six laid down while initial batch of Earl class were refitting out in 1939.

By 1941 Britain has 15x 35,000t Fleet Carriers.

 

[M79]

I-550 class Imperial Japanese Submarine "Taikai-Hebi", or Serpent of the Ocean​

​

​

Displacement: 28,760 long tons​

Length: 250 m (820 ft)​

Beam: 24 m (78.8 ft)​

Draft: 21 m (69 ft)​

​

​

Propulsion: SHKTI (Super-Heavy Kawasaki Type I) shipboard nuclear powerplant for a total of 15,000 horsepower​

Speed: 21 knots submerged, 14 knots surfaced​

​

​

Test depth: 500m​

Compliment:​

-86 officers, 400 men (including 46 pilots)​

-20 Kyushu J9W1 fighter aircraft​

-20 Mitsubishi H2 fighter submarines​

Armament:
-6 torpedo tubes
-12 Bofors interlocked 40mm cannon (anti-air)
-Four five-inch guns between two turrets (one aft, one rear)

The legendary successor to the I-510 class, this fourth-generation submersible carrier played a pivotal role in World War II between the CommunAxis Bloc and the Allied Powers. Following the Russian attack at Pearl Harbor by the Pe-19 series bombers, the gradual friendship of Naxi Germany and Beria's Soviet Union came to fruition with plans for world domination. With their conquest of India and much of mainland Asia, it was these carrier aircraft that began the "Long March" to peace in 1974. Until the introduction of the American Coolidge class carriers in 1966 and even for a decade afterwards, this (comparatively diminutive) carrier was the mainstay of the Pacific defense even until the Battle of the Taiwan Straits. Her Kyushu J9W1 fighters became the basis for new carrier models while the fighter-sub concept envisioned in the H2 would pioneer the technologies that let commercial-scale development of the world's begin just after the war. Over 40 I-550s were produced prior to the development of the I-600 in 1968 and I-700 class submersible carriers deployed only months before the war's end. To this day the I-700 lead class Yamamoto holds the records for largest warship ever built and among the largest ships ever built (400m long, GT 200,000 tons *each*)

In the United States there is an I-550 on display at the Pearl Harbor museum as well as the Kiel Naval History Museum in the Z.O.N.E. (Zone of Occupation for North America - Europe, comprising northern third of Germany and northwestern remnant of USSR including St. Petersburg).

 

[eltf177]

they never were intended as any type of cruiser .. never intended to fight ships at all ...
their mission was shore bombardment as part of a possible forcing of the Baltic Narrows

a proper classification for them would be "Fast Monitors"

and for that even the 2x1 18" made sense ..as did their (relatively) shallow draught.

Yes, part of Fisher's Baltic Invasion scheme although the extra speed would have been of less use than more armor.

Still, ship-to-ship combat was more than likely going to happen at some point.

These ships stand alone as one of the oddest concepts in warship design, but I still like them.