Right. Sorry, I ought to have been more precise.
These being capital ships, the odds are overwhelming that the IJN would retain the original names.
Right. Sorry, I ought to have been more precise.
These being capital ships, the odds are overwhelming that the IJN would retain the original names.
How about the conversion of the German Liner Scharnhorst into the Japanese Escort Carrier Shin'yo. Perhaps after the liner is trapped in Japan in 1939 the Germans have the Japanese convert her for them and when a crew is sent through the SU and trained up she goes out into the Pacific as a raider.
en.wikipedia.org
Japanese aircraft carrier Shin'yō - Wikipedia
Perhaps. Isn't Shin'yo an escort carrier though?How about the conversion of the German Liner Scharnhorst into the Japanese Escort Carrier Shin'yo. Perhaps after the liner is trapped in Japan in 1939 the Germans have the Japanese convert her for them and when a crew is sent through the SU and trained up she goes out into the Pacific as a raider.
Japanese aircraft carrier Shin'yō - Wikipedia
View attachment 658867
There's not much difference between a properly designed escort carrier and a light carrier. Shin'yo's 3000 tons heavier and 3 knots slower than the Colossus class light fleet carrier.
For the US Navy, the difference maker was speed. For the RN and IJN, that was a lot murkier. The Majestics and Collosuses only made 24-25 knots, while the Centaurs managed a middling 28.
I'd argue that the US Independence class were fast escort carriers while the Colossus/Majestic class were slow fleet carriers. The British ships were definitely the better carriers.
Given the relatively lack of combat action they saw in WW2, who knows would have handled combat damage.
I'll take a purpose built ship over a rushed, compromised lash up of a conversion every time.
RamscoopRaider
Donor
The Independences operated with the Fleet rather than escort forces for their entire WWII careers, so they are light fleet carriers. They have the same tactical/operational speed as the big girls, they are just smaller with smaller airwings, less toughness etc.
Definitely better is arguable if you have to cut 20% off your forces speed to bring them along
And if your choice is the conversions in 1943 or the purpose built vessels in 45/46, when you are at war right now? The CVL-22's were around for two carrier battles and participated in numerous raids and amphibious campaigns in the last 18 months of the war. The 1942's were used as ersatz troopships after the war was over. Not much to argue which proved more useful in WWII
I think the problem really is nomenclature here. Which I think @RamscoopRaider gets to the nub of:
It's all a question of what each Navy wanted out of these carriers. For the US Navy, what it wanted were carriers that could operate with the fast carrier task forces, especially in the vast expanses of the Pacific. And what it also wanted (as @RamscoopRaider rightly says) were carrier decks it could get hold of fast, as in, 1943! The Essexes could only be built so quickly, even by the monster that was 1940's US shipbuilding. The Independences were not great carriers. They were cramped and lacked adequate protection. But they did fit the US Navy's needs. They got the job done, and they got it done when it needed to be done.
Whereas what the Royal Navy seems to have wanted were really glorified escort carriers - not flattops that needed to operate with the fleet carriers, but carriers that could do convoy escort and ASW . . . and, eventually, to serve as maintenance carriers. So speed was not important. In these roles, the Majestics and Collosuses got the job done. (The Centaurs are harder to evaluate, since none were finished during the war.) Really, though, in a USN perspective, they amounted to somewhat oversized escort carriers, and if they had been forced to use any, that is how they would have employed them, working alongside the Bogues and Casablancas.
So what is a light carrier? It really depended on who you were asking in the 1940's.
And that was exactly what Roosevelt's and King's dilemma was in early 1942. Converting Clevelands already building on the slipways -- which the US had in abundance -- was the quick and dirty answer. If they were content to wait until 1945/46, they could just wait for the armada of Essexes to be completed. But they needed decks for 1943.
And in late 1943 and through 1944, the Independences constituted something like 40% of the fast carrier task forces' airpower. It wasn't always pretty, but it was pretty valuable.
Whereas the RN was planning to fight in the Pacific in 1945-46 (not their fault the A Bomb mucked things up) and the escort carriers entering service in 1942-43 could meet their immediate needs.
Sure. As I said: "It's all a question of what each Navy wanted out of these carriers."
And because what each navy wanted was considerably different, their definitions of "light carrier" came to be quite different, too.
What we end up with as a result is a ship type that's even more complicated and varied than "battlecruiser."
(The Japanese were a more muddled mess than either the Brits or the Americans, because a) in the 30's they were merely trying to sneak through Treaty loopholes, and b) in the 40's, they were much more desperate than either the USN or RN, and took anything they could throw at the wall that would stick. The Ryūjō arguably was the only Japanese CVL that could fit the American definition of the term; not surprising that it was brought along to operate with CARDIV 5 at the Eastern Solomons, because it could more or less keep up; the IJN tried to use Zuihō similarly, though with more limited success. Mostly, though, their CVL's operated with top speeds only in the mid-20's. Perhaps the Chitoses could have qualified, but they were converted too late to serve as anything but Navy Crosses waiting to happen.)
RamscoopRaider
Donor
Honestly if that is the case the 1942s were overly optimistic, given how it is likely most of the Majestics would not be able to see combat by the end of '46, and only 6 of the Colossus by the end of '45, including a maintenance ship
1890 Somewhere up the Mississippi River lurks the Confederate States Navy gunboat Crocket.
