Alternate warships of nations

Everything would depend on Haway's economy, ie what it can aford. Without major sources of income (and tourism is not enough...) it would be unable to aford anything bigger than some corvetes, maybe a frigate or two...
 
With regards to Hawaii, the chances of it being a semi-independent state, once coaling stations become absolutely vital to the new steel navies of Japan. USA, UK, Russia, Germany and France; all jockeying for position in the Pacific Ocean, circa 1900, are so close to ZERO that it becomes a PoD ATL debate to see who grabs the islands before the Americans do and what kind of war with the Americans results.
 
OK I'm doing a small project at the moment which may go nowhere. I'm looking for ideas for a ship design.

Anyway what you need to know about the timeline is that the economy of British India is significantly better than OTL (around 20% better) and the economy of the UK is slightly better than OTL (around 5%).

The stronger Indian economy leads to a bigger investment in naval affairs by the British Raj after Russian cruiser warfare in the Indian ocean in this time lines equivalent to the Russo Japanese war. The Royal Indian Navy is founded in 1904. Procedures are put in place that Royal Naval personal can serve in the Royal Indian Navy at full pay (paid by the India office) and their rank and seniority would carry on for when they want to transfer back to Royal Naval service.

In 1904, 1905, and 1906, the Royal Indian Navy orders a protected cruiser and 2-4 destroyers. In 1907 they place an order for a flag ship of their new fleet. They are ordering no new ships in 1908 to focus their budget in the 1907 order.

They order something to fit a niche that the Royal Navy never seemed to want to fill at this time period. I'll call it a second class cruiser. Something between protected or scout cruisers (around 3k tons) and battlecruisers .

A specification from the Royal Indian Navy for a Second Class Cruiser
1. Budget, the ship must cost less than £900,000
2. The ship must be no longer than 500 foot in length and must be no more than 64 foot in breadth
3. The ship must be at least 26 knots though 27 would be preferred.
4. The ship should be armed with existing Royal Navy guns. The main target of this ship is protected and scout cruisers. The ability to hurt an armoured cruiser would be appreciated but is not a focus.
5. There should be some weapon capable of rapid fire use against torpedo ships.
6. The ship should have deck armour capable of defending against the guns of destroyers or protected or scout cruisers.
7. There should be belt armour.

Anyone care to offer suggestions?
 
How about range? Is this just to protect India's coast, or would this India be projecting naval power, thus requiring longer range?
 
How about a mini-Minotaur with 2x2 19cm guns, say 8 12-pounders, similar armor, and turbines to make 26 knots with Devonshire's range? The 19cm guns can hurt a true armored cruiser and beat a CL, the armor is fairly standard for RN armored cruisers, and the speed allows you to overtake CL's and shadow larger ships. VTE and 23 knots would be a lot cheaper, and would be a more realistic option if the original design is too expensive. Just my two cents.
 
How about range? Is this just to protect India's coast, or would this India be projecting naval power, thus requiring longer range?
Its meant for Indian Ocean operations so needs to be able to travel far enough. Its not a coastal defense vessel. Historically the Russian cruiser forces operating in the Indian ocean harassed a lot of British (and British Indian) shipping during the Russian Japanese war. I want this to act as inspiration for a cruiser capable comfortably handling light cruiser forces in the region.
How about a mini-Minotaur with 2x2 19cm guns, say 8 12-pounders, similar armor, and turbines to make 26 knots with Devonshire's range? The 19cm guns can hurt a true armored cruiser and beat a CL, the armor is fairly standard for RN armored cruisers, and the speed allows you to overtake CL's and shadow larger ships. VTE and 23 knots would be a lot cheaper, and would be a more realistic option if the original design is too expensive. Just my two cents.
I have to say I was thinking that the 7.5 inch guns would be ideal alright. The Hawkins class shows that it's basically possible to have them and fit the beam requirements (Hawkins is 65 foot beam). Yes I know the hawking class had single 7.5 inch guns but they also had two wing turrets in line with each other.

Being ordered in 1907 the speed is essential. The era of a 23 knot cruiser is passing. Modern protected and scout cruisers are capable of 23-25 knots so if to run it down it needs the speed.

As India still British the possibility of this ship having to sail off to aid the Royal Navy is considered. If it is a 23 knot ship she is a weaker armoured cruiser. If its a 26 or 27 knot ship she can be a useful heavy screen and able to avoid battlecruisers.

I'll have to sit down and try and work out the cost.

By the way the requirements for size is based on drydocks. Using historical drydocks she can be taken in in the Far East Africa and Eastern Mediterranean we have 3 docks in Malta, 1 in Alexandria, 1 in Durban, 1 in Bombay, 1 in Calcutta, 2 in Ceylon, 1 in Singapore, 3 in Hong Kong and 2 in Sydney. An extra foot wider or 10 foot longer and you start losing drydocks.
 
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How about a mini-Minotaur with 2x2 19cm guns, say 8 12-pounders, similar armor, and turbines to make 26 knots with Devonshire's range? The 19cm guns can hurt a true armored cruiser and beat a CL, the armor is fairly standard for RN armored cruisers, and the speed allows you to overtake CL's and shadow larger ships. VTE and 23 knots would be a lot cheaper, and would be a more realistic option if the original design is too expensive. Just my two cents.

Take a look at these:

Fury (VTE), UK Export Armored Cruiser laid down 1908

Displacement:
6,044 t light; 6,272 t standard; 6,688 t normal; 7,021 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
500.00 ft / 500.00 ft x 55.00 ft x 16.00 ft (normal load)
152.40 m / 152.40 m x 16.76 m x 4.88 m

Armament:
4 - 7.50" / 191 mm guns (2x2 guns), 210.94lbs / 95.68kg shells, 1908 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
10 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1908 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
12 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns in single mounts, 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1908 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1,047 lbs / 475 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
2 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4.00" / 102 mm 350.00 ft / 106.68 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Ends: 2.00" / 51 mm 100.00 ft / 30.48 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
50.00 ft / 15.24 m Unarmoured ends
Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 4.00" / 102 mm 2.50" / 64 mm 4.00" / 102 mm
2nd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
3rd: 0.50" / 13 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1.50" / 38 mm, Conning tower: 6.00" / 152 mm

Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 19,684 ihp / 14,685 Kw = 23.00 kts
Range 4,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 750 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
369 - 480

Cost:
£0.572 million / $2.288 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 131 tons, 2.0 %
Armour: 1,238 tons, 18.5 %
- Belts: 524 tons, 7.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 144 tons, 2.2 %
- Armour Deck: 524 tons, 7.8 %
- Conning Tower: 46 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 1,789 tons, 26.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,836 tons, 42.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 644 tons, 9.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 0.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
6,387 lbs / 2,897 Kg = 30.3 x 7.5 " / 191 mm shells or 1.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.41
Metacentric height 3.7 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 12.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 61 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.15
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.02

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.532
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.09 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.36 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: -3.00 ft / -0.91 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Mid (50 %): 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Stern: 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Average freeboard: 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 105.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 97.4 %
Waterplane Area: 18,872 Square feet or 1,753 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 113 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 111 lbs/sq ft or 543 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.42
- Longitudinal: 0.89
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

TT's in bow and stern.

Works quite well

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Fury (Turbine), UK Export Armored Cruiser laid down 1908

Displacement:
6,014 t light; 6,241 t standard; 6,688 t normal; 7,046 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
500.00 ft / 500.00 ft x 55.00 ft x 16.00 ft (normal load)
152.40 m / 152.40 m x 16.76 m x 4.88 m

Armament:
4 - 7.50" / 191 mm guns (2x2 guns), 210.94lbs / 95.68kg shells, 1908 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
10 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1908 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
12 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns in single mounts, 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1908 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1,047 lbs / 475 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
2 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4.00" / 102 mm 350.00 ft / 106.68 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Ends: 2.00" / 51 mm 100.00 ft / 30.48 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
50.00 ft / 15.24 m Unarmoured ends
Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 4.00" / 102 mm 2.50" / 64 mm 4.00" / 102 mm
2nd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
3rd: 0.50" / 13 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1.50" / 38 mm, Conning tower: 6.00" / 152 mm

Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 31,618 shp / 23,587 Kw = 26.00 kts
Range 4,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 804 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
369 - 480

Cost:
£0.566 million / $2.265 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 131 tons, 2.0 %
Armour: 1,238 tons, 18.5 %
- Belts: 524 tons, 7.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 144 tons, 2.2 %
- Armour Deck: 524 tons, 7.8 %
- Conning Tower: 46 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 1,757 tons, 26.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,839 tons, 42.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 674 tons, 10.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 0.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
6,573 lbs / 2,981 Kg = 31.2 x 7.5 " / 191 mm shells or 1.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.41
Metacentric height 3.7 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 12.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 49 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.14
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.79

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.532
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.09 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.36 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: -3.00 ft / -0.91 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Mid (50 %): 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Stern: 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Average freeboard: 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 104.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 97.4 %
Waterplane Area: 18,872 Square feet or 1,753 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 111 lbs/sq ft or 544 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.40
- Longitudinal: 0.89
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

TT's in bow and stern.

Still works but seakeeping tanks at 26 knots, probably good up to 23.5-24 knots though...

*****

I adore Armored Cruisers, thanks for giving me a good reason to design some more!
 
Take a look at these:

Fury (VTE), UK Export Armored Cruiser laid down 1908

Displacement:
6,044 t light; 6,272 t standard; 6,688 t normal; 7,021 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
500.00 ft / 500.00 ft x 55.00 ft x 16.00 ft (normal load)
152.40 m / 152.40 m x 16.76 m x 4.88 m

Armament:
4 - 7.50" / 191 mm guns (2x2 guns), 210.94lbs / 95.68kg shells, 1908 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
10 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1908 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
12 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns in single mounts, 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1908 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1,047 lbs / 475 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
2 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4.00" / 102 mm 350.00 ft / 106.68 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Ends: 2.00" / 51 mm 100.00 ft / 30.48 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
50.00 ft / 15.24 m Unarmoured ends
Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 4.00" / 102 mm 2.50" / 64 mm 4.00" / 102 mm
2nd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
3rd: 0.50" / 13 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1.50" / 38 mm, Conning tower: 6.00" / 152 mm

Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 19,684 ihp / 14,685 Kw = 23.00 kts
Range 4,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 750 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
369 - 480

Cost:
£0.572 million / $2.288 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 131 tons, 2.0 %
Armour: 1,238 tons, 18.5 %
- Belts: 524 tons, 7.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 144 tons, 2.2 %
- Armour Deck: 524 tons, 7.8 %
- Conning Tower: 46 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 1,789 tons, 26.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,836 tons, 42.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 644 tons, 9.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 0.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
6,387 lbs / 2,897 Kg = 30.3 x 7.5 " / 191 mm shells or 1.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.41
Metacentric height 3.7 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 12.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 61 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.15
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.02

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.532
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.09 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.36 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: -3.00 ft / -0.91 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Mid (50 %): 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Stern: 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Average freeboard: 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 105.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 97.4 %
Waterplane Area: 18,872 Square feet or 1,753 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 113 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 111 lbs/sq ft or 543 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.42
- Longitudinal: 0.89
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

TT's in bow and stern.

Works quite well

*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*

Fury (Turbine), UK Export Armored Cruiser laid down 1908

Displacement:
6,014 t light; 6,241 t standard; 6,688 t normal; 7,046 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
500.00 ft / 500.00 ft x 55.00 ft x 16.00 ft (normal load)
152.40 m / 152.40 m x 16.76 m x 4.88 m

Armament:
4 - 7.50" / 191 mm guns (2x2 guns), 210.94lbs / 95.68kg shells, 1908 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
10 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1908 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
12 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns in single mounts, 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1908 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1,047 lbs / 475 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
2 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4.00" / 102 mm 350.00 ft / 106.68 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Ends: 2.00" / 51 mm 100.00 ft / 30.48 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
50.00 ft / 15.24 m Unarmoured ends
Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 4.00" / 102 mm 2.50" / 64 mm 4.00" / 102 mm
2nd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
3rd: 0.50" / 13 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1.50" / 38 mm, Conning tower: 6.00" / 152 mm

Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 31,618 shp / 23,587 Kw = 26.00 kts
Range 4,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 804 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
369 - 480

Cost:
£0.566 million / $2.265 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 131 tons, 2.0 %
Armour: 1,238 tons, 18.5 %
- Belts: 524 tons, 7.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 144 tons, 2.2 %
- Armour Deck: 524 tons, 7.8 %
- Conning Tower: 46 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 1,757 tons, 26.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,839 tons, 42.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 674 tons, 10.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 0.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
6,573 lbs / 2,981 Kg = 31.2 x 7.5 " / 191 mm shells or 1.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.41
Metacentric height 3.7 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 12.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 49 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.14
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.79

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.532
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.09 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.36 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: -3.00 ft / -0.91 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Mid (50 %): 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Stern: 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Average freeboard: 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 104.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 97.4 %
Waterplane Area: 18,872 Square feet or 1,753 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 111 lbs/sq ft or 544 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.40
- Longitudinal: 0.89
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

TT's in bow and stern.

Still works but seakeeping tanks at 26 knots, probably good up to 23.5-24 knots though...

*****

I adore Armored Cruisers, thanks for giving me a good reason to design some more!
In this period oil spraying would be common for the coal and would often form upto a third of the fuel stores.

Range is probably a little light. 4,000 nm at 10 knots sounds like you can get wherever you want but if you kick the speed up at all

I don't see anything else obviously off here.

Am slightly surprised it's coming in around 6k tons standard. Was guessing 8ish.

Would it throw a massive spanner in the works if we tried to fit an extra 2x7.5 inch gun turret in?
 
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Anyone care to offer suggestions?
IOTL, after Malay donated a battleship, India tentatively offered 3 Battleships and 9 protected cruisers. It was decided that the tax burden on Indians would be unfair. In the above scenario, if India was insisting on it's own navy then the Fleet Unit concept would fit well and an Invincible or Indefatigable (looks like they already have the 2-3 cruisers and 6-8 Destroyers) would be a better investment than a smaller cruiser. A RIN at this time would be limited by suitable officers leading to fewer but larger ships.
 
In this period oil spraying would be common for the coal and would often form upto a third of the fuel stores.

Range is probably a little light. 4,000 nm at 10 knots sounds like you can get wherever you want but if you kick the speed up at all

I don't see anything else obviously off here.

Am slightly surprised it's coming in around 6k tons standard. Was guessing 8ish.

Would it throw a massive spanner in the works if we tried to fit an extra 2x7.5 inch gun turret in?
I'd forgotten about oil-spray, I'll redo these with that. I tried to use a smaller hull since it's just four 7.5-inch guns, but let me try and shoehorn in a "Q" turret and see what that does, I'll probably have to increase size...
 
IOTL, after Malay donated a battleship, India tentatively offered 3 Battleships and 9 protected cruisers. It was decided that the tax burden on Indians would be unfair. In the above scenario, if India was insisting on it's own navy then the Fleet Unit concept would fit well and an Invincible or Indefatigable (looks like they already have the 2-3 cruisers and 6-8 Destroyers) would be a better investment than a smaller cruiser. A RIN at this time would be limited by suitable officers leading to fewer but larger ships.
There's two key concepts when it comes to dominion defense.

1. Local defense.
2. Imperial defense.

I certainly agree that a battlecruiser would do better for contribution towards imperial defense however I believe that a battlecruiser might be overkill for local defense. If we were to judge the threats believed likely in the Indian Ocean in the case of a major war we could rank the threats to be 1. Auxiliary cruisers (very likely) 2. Protected cruisers (somewhat likely) 3. Armoured Cruiser (unlikely). The idea of enemy battlecruisers in theater isn't even being considered. Von Der Tann (Germany's first battlecruiser) hasn't even been laid down yet. If they looked at a 'flagship' a year or two later they may have decided battlecruiser. I don't know.

It's also less likely that the Royal Navy will be calling for a "second class cruiser" or "armoured cruiser" to deploy to home waters as soon as war breaks out.

The economy of this British India is somewhat stronger than our time line but at the same time it can't go buying a Battlesquadron for the Royal Navy.

For another thing a battlecruiser is limited to Ceylon for drydock in the Indian Ocean (with Singapore and Alexandria as options outside the immediate area).
I'd forgotten about oil-spray, I'll redo these with that. I tried to use a smaller hull since it's just four 7.5-inch guns, but let me try and shoehorn in a "Q" turret and see what that does, I'll probably have to increase size...
Thanks. I'm not sure the three turrets would work in the specified size so feel free to tell me no here. It was just n idle thought when the tonnage was a bit lower than I was expecting.
 
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OK I'm doing a small project at the moment which may go nowhere. I'm looking for ideas for a ship design.

Anyway what you need to know about the timeline is that the economy of British India is significantly better than OTL (around 20% better) and the economy of the UK is slightly better than OTL (around 5%).

The stronger Indian economy leads to a bigger investment in naval affairs by the British Raj after Russian cruiser warfare in the Indian ocean in this time lines equivalent to the Russo Japanese war. The Royal Indian Navy is founded in 1904. Procedures are put in place that Royal Naval personal can serve in the Royal Indian Navy at full pay (paid by the India office) and their rank and seniority would carry on for when they want to transfer back to Royal Naval service.

In 1904, 1905, and 1906, the Royal Indian Navy orders a protected cruiser and 2-4 destroyers. In 1907 they place an order for a flag ship of their new fleet. They are ordering no new ships in 1908 to focus their budget in the 1907 order.

They order something to fit a niche that the Royal Navy never seemed to want to fill at this time period. I'll call it a second class cruiser. Something between protected or scout cruisers (around 3k tons) and battlecruisers .

A specification from the Royal Indian Navy for a Second Class Cruiser
1. Budget, the ship must cost less than £900,000
2. The ship must be no longer than 500 foot in length and must be no more than 64 foot in breadth
3. The ship must be at least 26 knots though 27 would be preferred.
4. The ship should be armed with existing Royal Navy guns. The main target of this ship is protected and scout cruisers. The ability to hurt an armoured cruiser would be appreciated but is not a focus.
5. There should be some weapon capable of rapid fire use against torpedo ships.
6. The ship should have deck armour capable of defending against the guns of destroyers or protected or scout cruisers.
7. There should be belt armour.

Anyone care to offer suggestions?
Why do you insist on beltarmor, when there is a protective deck on a 2nd class cruisers? The vast majority of protected cruisers did not have any need for a belt and a protective deck. Only armored cruisers had both and these were 1st class cruisers in rating.
 
Why do you insist on beltarmor, when there is a protective deck on a 2nd class cruisers? The vast majority of protected cruisers did not have any need for a belt and a protective deck. Only armored cruisers had both and these were 1st class cruisers in rating.
Well I'm not going to say I insist on it. I could see an argument either way.

I put in the spec because I was trying to be forward thinking as it's only a few years before light cruisers with belt armour became common. (German Madgeburg class and British Town class Chatham subclass. Both laid down 1910).

As this is larger than than the protected or scout cruisers that are being built at the time it felt like it made sense to include belt armour. To be honest though I was probably thinking something more akin to the Chatham class than to an armoured cruiser but etfl's design inspired by cv(n)6's comment is much appreciated.
 
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Redid both Fury's with 20% oil...

Fury (VTE), UK Export Armored Cruiser laid down 1908

Displacement:
5,954 t light; 6,179 t standard; 6,562 t normal; 6,869 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
500.00 ft / 500.00 ft x 55.00 ft x 16.00 ft (normal load)
152.40 m / 152.40 m x 16.76 m x 4.88 m

Armament:
4 - 7.50" / 191 mm guns (2x2 guns), 210.94lbs / 95.68kg shells, 1908 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
10 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1908 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
12 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns in single mounts, 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1908 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1,047 lbs / 475 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
2 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4.00" / 102 mm 350.00 ft / 106.68 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Ends: 2.00" / 51 mm 100.00 ft / 30.48 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
50.00 ft / 15.24 m Unarmoured ends
Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 4.00" / 102 mm 2.50" / 64 mm 4.00" / 102 mm
2nd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
3rd: 0.50" / 13 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1.50" / 38 mm, Conning tower: 6.00" / 152 mm

Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 19,386 ihp / 14,462 Kw = 23.00 kts
Range 4,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 690 tons (80% coal)

Complement:
363 - 473

Cost:
£0.560 million / $2.241 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 131 tons, 2.0 %
Armour: 1,232 tons, 18.8 %
- Belts: 524 tons, 8.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 144 tons, 2.2 %
- Armour Deck: 519 tons, 7.9 %
- Conning Tower: 45 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 1,728 tons, 26.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,813 tons, 42.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 608 tons, 9.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 0.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
6,422 lbs / 2,913 Kg = 30.4 x 7.5 " / 191 mm shells or 1.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.40
Metacentric height 3.7 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 12.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 61 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.15
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.02

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.522
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.09 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.36 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: -3.00 ft / -0.91 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Mid (50 %): 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Stern: 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Average freeboard: 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 104.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 98.1 %
Waterplane Area: 18,697 Square feet or 1,737 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 113 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 111 lbs/sq ft or 543 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.42
- Longitudinal: 0.90
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

TT's in bow and stern.

*=*=*=*=*=*=*

Fury (Turbine), UK Export Armored Cruiser laid down 1908

Displacement:
5,903 t light; 6,127 t standard; 6,537 t normal; 6,865 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
500.00 ft / 500.00 ft x 55.00 ft x 16.00 ft (normal load)
152.40 m / 152.40 m x 16.76 m x 4.88 m

Armament:
4 - 7.50" / 191 mm guns (2x2 guns), 210.94lbs / 95.68kg shells, 1908 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
10 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1908 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
12 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns in single mounts, 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1908 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1,047 lbs / 475 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
2 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4.00" / 102 mm 350.00 ft / 106.68 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Ends: 2.00" / 51 mm 100.00 ft / 30.48 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
50.00 ft / 15.24 m Unarmoured ends
Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 4.00" / 102 mm 2.50" / 64 mm 4.00" / 102 mm
2nd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
3rd: 0.50" / 13 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1.50" / 38 mm, Conning tower: 6.00" / 152 mm

Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 31,013 shp / 23,136 Kw = 26.00 kts
Range 4,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 739 tons (80% coal)

Complement:
363 - 472

Cost:
£0.553 million / $2.212 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 131 tons, 2.0 %
Armour: 1,231 tons, 18.8 %
- Belts: 524 tons, 8.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 144 tons, 2.2 %
- Armour Deck: 518 tons, 7.9 %
- Conning Tower: 45 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 1,689 tons, 25.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,801 tons, 42.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 635 tons, 9.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 0.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
6,592 lbs / 2,990 Kg = 31.2 x 7.5 " / 191 mm shells or 1.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.40
Metacentric height 3.7 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 12.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 49 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.14
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.81

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.520
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.09 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.36 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: -3.00 ft / -0.91 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Mid (50 %): 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Stern: 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Average freeboard: 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 103.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 97.9 %
Waterplane Area: 18,662 Square feet or 1,734 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 115 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 111 lbs/sq ft or 542 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.39
- Longitudinal: 0.90
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

TT's in bow and stern.


Basically just got a slightly lighter displacement.
 
Redid the Turbine version with a third 7.5-inch turret in "Q" position. Displacement had to increase and seakeeping got worse...

Fury II (Turbine), UK Export Armored Cruiser laid down 1908

Displacement:
6,577 t light; 6,852 t standard; 7,291 t normal; 7,643 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
500.00 ft / 500.00 ft x 55.00 ft x 16.00 ft (normal load)
152.40 m / 152.40 m x 16.76 m x 4.88 m

Armament:
6 - 7.50" / 191 mm guns (3x2 guns), 210.94lbs / 95.68kg shells, 1908 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline, evenly spread
Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
10 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1908 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
12 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns in single mounts, 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1908 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1,468 lbs / 666 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
2 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4.00" / 102 mm 350.00 ft / 106.68 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Ends: 2.00" / 51 mm 100.00 ft / 30.48 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
50.00 ft / 15.24 m Unarmoured ends
Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 4.00" / 102 mm 2.50" / 64 mm 4.00" / 102 mm
2nd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
3rd: 0.50" / 13 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1.50" / 38 mm, Conning tower: 6.00" / 152 mm

Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 34,053 shp / 25,403 Kw = 26.00 kts
Range 4,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 792 tons (80% coal)

Complement:
393 - 512

Cost:
£0.644 million / $2.576 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 184 tons, 2.5 %
Armour: 1,327 tons, 18.2 %
- Belts: 525 tons, 7.2 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 205 tons, 2.8 %
- Armour Deck: 548 tons, 7.5 %
- Conning Tower: 49 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 1,855 tons, 25.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,162 tons, 43.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 714 tons, 9.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 0.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
6,503 lbs / 2,950 Kg = 30.8 x 7.5 " / 191 mm shells or 1.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.27
Metacentric height 3.2 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 13.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.22
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.74

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.580
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.09 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.36 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: -3.00 ft / -0.91 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Mid (50 %): 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Stern: 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Average freeboard: 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 105.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 95.7 %
Waterplane Area: 19,740 Square feet or 1,834 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 119 lbs/sq ft or 583 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.45
- Longitudinal: 0.88
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

TT's in bow and stern.
 
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Redid the 6-gun version on a larger hull. Got speed up to 28 knots and range up to 5,500 nm @ 10 knots but at the cost of a much larger hull with the same armament and thin armor. At this point I feel a turbine-powered Minotaur would probably be a better investment...

Fury III (Turbine), UK Export Armored Cruiser laid down 1908

Displacement:
9,023 t light; 9,353 t standard; 10,081 t normal; 10,663 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
550.00 ft / 550.00 ft x 60.00 ft x 18.00 ft (normal load)
167.64 m / 167.64 m x 18.29 m x 5.49 m

Armament:
6 - 7.50" / 191 mm guns (3x2 guns), 210.94lbs / 95.68kg shells, 1908 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline, evenly spread
Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
10 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1908 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
12 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns in single mounts, 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1908 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1,468 lbs / 666 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
2 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4.00" / 102 mm 405.00 ft / 123.44 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Ends: 2.00" / 51 mm 100.00 ft / 30.48 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
45.00 ft / 13.72 m Unarmoured ends
Main Belt covers 113 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 4.00" / 102 mm 2.50" / 64 mm 4.00" / 102 mm
2nd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
3rd: 0.50" / 13 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1.50" / 38 mm, Conning tower: 6.00" / 152 mm

Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 54,077 shp / 40,341 Kw = 28.00 kts
Range 5,500nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,310 tons (80% coal)

Complement:
502 - 653

Cost:
£0.882 million / $3.529 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 184 tons, 1.8 %
Armour: 1,526 tons, 15.1 %
- Belts: 594 tons, 5.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 205 tons, 2.0 %
- Armour Deck: 666 tons, 6.6 %
- Conning Tower: 60 tons, 0.6 %
Machinery: 2,945 tons, 29.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,318 tons, 42.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,058 tons, 10.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 0.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
7,892 lbs / 3,580 Kg = 37.4 x 7.5 " / 191 mm shells or 1.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.37
Metacentric height 4.0 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 12.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 46 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.13
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.61

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.594
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.17 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.45 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: -3.00 ft / -0.91 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Mid (50 %): 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Stern: 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Average freeboard: 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 112.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 91.1 %
Waterplane Area: 24,001 Square feet or 2,230 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 113 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 135 lbs/sq ft or 661 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.60
- Longitudinal: 0.86
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Caution: Lacks seaworthiness - very limited seakeeping ability

TT's in bow and stern.
 
Not sure I'll use them as actual ships built in my timeline but thank you very much for doing them up. Am going to do some more thinking, some trawling the Internet looking for ideas and will play with spring sharp myself.

A scene like this will be inserted to my timeline. No guarantee it will get published though.

The Royal Indian Navy issued their specifications to a number of shipyards. With the chief naval architect of company x engaged in other projects the deputy chief naval architect Mr Etlf177 (feel free to nominate a name) presented a number of options between 6 and 9 thousand tonnes.

Insert description of ships.

In the end the Royal Indian Navy went with x.
Redid the Turbine version with a third 7.5-inch turret in "Q" position. Displacement had to increase and seakeeping got worse...
I figured. I think the Hull length is killing it. Might have to have the Royal Indian Navy remove their desire to be able to use every midsized drydock in the region. A Turbine powered updated minotaur might be out of its budget but at the same time it might be a better choice than trying to aim at a second class cruiser. There may be a reason the Royal Navy didn't buidl anything between a lighg cruiser and a battlecruiser until the Hawkins. Then again once you go for a armoured cruiser it's only a couple of hundred thousand more before you talk indefatigable.

Civil servants trying to get princely states to sponsor the Royal Indian Navy battlecruiser. "how about we name it after you. Will you pay the extra."
 
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Fishers original plan for Invincible was an all 9.2” ship (16 of them in one iteration IIRC). The idea came up a few times later but never got past planning. Once you go to 12” and your enemies do too it’s not really worth it for Britain . It could maybe work for India though. Would probably overwhelm anything short of a BB or heavy BC. Though likely the same price as an actual Invincible. So might be better to just go all the way.
 
Fishers original plan for Invincible was an all 9.2” ship (16 of them in one iteration IIRC). The idea came up a few times later but never got past planning. Once you go to 12” and your enemies do too it’s not really worth it for Britain . It could maybe work for India though. Would probably overwhelm anything short of a BB or heavy BC. Though likely the same price as an actual Invincible. So might be better to just go all the way.
Minotaur class guns cost €70,150 (4x9.2 inch guns and 10x7.5 inch guns 16 12 pounder guns)
Invincible class guns cost €90,000 (8x12 inch guns 16 4 inch guns)

I know its 14 smaller guns compared to 8 larger guns but it's interesting to see how close the cost was.
 
Yeah, guns themselves were actually a surprisingly small part of the cost of ships in the Dreadnought era. Of course that doesn’t include any changes that need to be made in regards to weight and layout to fit them, and their loading equipment.
 
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