Alternate warships of nations

Quebec has a population of 8.5 million and a GDP similar in size to Chile. The Chilean Navy has 26,000 personnel including Marines and has 4 SSKs (two Type 209s from the 1980s and two Scorpenes from the 2000s) and eight old frigates, all from the 1980s and 1990s. These Quebecois would be lucky to have a navy that large considering the cost of manpower. A realistic goal would be for 4 SSKs and 4 modern frigates, although the naval geography in the Gulf of St. Lawrence would place more emphasis on fast attack craft and small ships no larger than the Sa'ar 4.5. MPAs would be very important, but Quebec won't have the money for more than a few modern ones, so the fleet is likely to be mostly P-3 Orions. Without frigates, you can also get rid of ASW helicopters. Any ideas of anything nuclear can be tossed immediately. OPVs are big, slow targets that have absolutely no business being built by such cash-strapped countries in places where land-based tactical aircraft are the dominant naval weapon.
 
Quebec has a population of 8.5 million and a GDP similar in size to Chile. The Chilean Navy has 26,000 personnel including Marines and has 4 SSKs (two Type 209s from the 1980s and two Scorpenes from the 2000s) and eight old frigates, all from the 1980s and 1990s. These Quebecois would be lucky to have a navy that large considering the cost of manpower. A realistic goal would be for 4 SSKs and 4 modern frigates, although the naval geography in the Gulf of St. Lawrence would place more emphasis on fast attack craft and small ships no larger than the Sa'ar 4.5. MPAs would be very important, but Quebec won't have the money for more than a few modern ones, so the fleet is likely to be mostly P-3 Orions. Without frigates, you can also get rid of ASW helicopters. Any ideas of anything nuclear can be tossed immediately. OPVs are big, slow targets that have absolutely no business being built by such cash-strapped countries in places where land-based tactical aircraft are the dominant naval weapon.

Greece has about the same GDP and 10 million people with 13 frigates and 11 SSK. Granted two thirds of that are Type 209s and S class frigates dating to 1980, that are likely being replaced by fewer ships (2 Type 214, 4 MMCS and 2-4 FFG (X) afterwards, plus EPC to replace both missile boats and older frigates in the 2030s is my guess at the moment). Of course Greece has reasons to maintain a largish navy and air force for its size. What's the external threat Quebec is facing here?
 
Wouldn't Quebec get a decent chunk of the RCN anyway, or easily be able to purchase it, in the event of a peaceful split? The RCN would downsize quite a bit after a successful Quebec independece.
Newfoundland. Those Newfies are quite the empire-builders. Got to keep an eye on them.
True. As a small nation with lots of fishing grounds to protect, they'd obviously be like Iceland in the Cod Wars and thus an invincible opponent.
 
I could see a few big ships needed just to survive the Atlantic and do their missions but otherwise I dont think the populace would want many warships
 
Quebecois Marine Nationale (Quebec Navy)

Set up with French help after the split with Canada, the Quebec Navy was created to protect the waters into Quebec which were important trade routes and to protect fishing areas. Second hand French vessels were purchased first while the Quebec industrial base built up it's ship building capacity.

2020

Personnel: 36,000

Inventory:

CV

No CV, instead an extra 4 FF/DD will be ordered

FF/DD

12 x FREMM Frigates (another 16 to be ordered and to be commissioned at yearly intervals)

SSBN's

None, 4 extra SSN's instead.

SSN's

2 x Barracuda class (another 8 ordered and being built)

Patrol

16 x D'Entrecasteaux class 8 in service (another 8 building)

Aircraft

24 x A-320 MPA
72 x NH-90 (ASW)

CVs aside that is a larger navy than the RN who currently have just under 33K regular service men and women!

Just saying

Edit: I see others might have mentioned it aready!
 

Driftless

Donor
Any suggestions for the Kingdom of Hawaii Navy in a world where it's never annexed and remains a US protectorate?
Depending on how the relationship unfolds, that territory could extend to Midway, French Frigate Shoals, and of course the familiar islands.

Either way, some deep water and coastal patrol boats are probably the bulk of the craft. Lot of work in fisheries and wildlife protection, search and rescue, plus some keeping foreign snoopers at bay too
 
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Any suggestions for the Kingdom of Hawaii Navy in a world where it's never annexed and remains a US protectorate?

Maybe some older Frigates/Corvettes and some Diesel Submarines but definitely no Carriers or Nuclear Submarines. And probably no full size destroyers.

Probably not even that since it will depend on USN to protect itself. Something like Pacific and Guardian class patrol boats are probably more likely.
 
The population of Hawaii is 1.4 million and GSP is slightly more than $80 billion. Countries with comparable economies include Oman, Kenya, Sri Lanka, Ecuador, Guatemala, and the Dominican Republic. Oman and Kenya spend way more on defense than Hawaii would, and Guatemala and the DR are both around 0.6% of GDP. Ecuador has two Type 209s, a pair of 2,500 ton Leanders and six 700 ton Italian corvettes plus patrol boats and auxiliaries. Since the US would be a "reliable ally" of the Hawaiians, the Hawaiian navy would look more like a coast guard than anything else, so up to a half-dozen medium endurance cutters plus about two dozen patrol boats (40 meters or smaller) and some auxiliaries. I think OPVs would be more important than SSKs.
 
Maybe some older Frigates/Corvettes and some Diesel Submarines but definitely no Carriers or Nuclear Submarines. And probably no full size destroyers.

Probably not even that since it will depend on USN to protect itself. Something like Pacific and Guardian class patrol boats are probably more likely.

A lot will depend on its size in terms of population, economy and regional sphere of influence. With no US involvement, this would most likely be very limited and more alike the small Pacific independent states in the South Pacific Region, like Tonga. If there is any need for a standing Navy, outside a much more limited policing force of some kind, it would be a very small one with a few patrol craft at best for rapid interception of smugglers and not much more. A custom Navy would be out of the question, as the small size of the hypothetical state and its limited economical backing would prevent such a thing.
 
Any suggestions for the Kingdom of Hawaii Navy in a world where it's never annexed and remains a US protectorate?
If it remains a protectorate – or more likely a Compact of Association like the Marshall Islands, the Federated States of Micronesia, Palau – then would they have one? Generally one of the main points of the relationship is that the larger state takes on the responsibility of defence. Hell, do the current associated states even maintain an independent coast guard?
 
If it remains a protectorate – or more likely a Compact of Association like the Marshall Islands, the Federated States of Micronesia, Palau – then would they have one? Generally one of the main points of the relationship is that the larger state takes on the responsibility of defence. Hell, do the current associated states even maintain an independent coast guard?

They have Maritime Police/Sea Patrol and operate some Australian built patrol boats OTL.

 
Fiji would be the best comparison because independent Hawaii would have similar economies and demographics although I suspect Hawaii would be slightly larger and more prosperous since it sits right in the middle of the Pacific on a trade route.

So nothing particularly big although I could see an independent Hawaii being like Fiji or Thailand in terms of the situation with the military with occasional coups and the military dominated by ethnic Hawaiians and whites as opposed to the substantial Asian population. Could mean a larger military budget to keep them happy meaning more ships.
 
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