Alternate warships of nations

[CV(N)-6]

I don't have the info from archives or anything on what was built by fiscal year, but this made sense in my head.
In 1909-1910, the Germans built:
BB 4 Nassau
BC 1 Von der Tann
AC(close to BC) Blucher
In 1911-1912:
BB 4 Helgoland
BC 2 Moltke
1914-1915:
BB 4 Konig
BC 2 Derfflinger

But, in 1912-1913, they built:
BB 5 Kaiser
BC 1 Seydlitz

What if, in 1912-1913, they'd kept up the habit of four dreadnoughts and a pair of battlecruisers, and built 4 Kaiser's and given Seydlitz a sister? What would be the British response? How does WW1 go down with 1SG getting another BC?

 

[jsb]

What would be the British response?

At least a second Queen Mary if not more than that as Germany is still increasing its fleet and GB will be driven for more of the 'We want eight and we won't wait!'

 

[ArtosStark]

Or, if they are slower on the trigger, HMS Leopard comes along beside Tiger

 

[jsb]

Or, if they are slower on the trigger, HMS Leopard comes along beside Tiger

Likely both personally as GB will escalate quickly and then not be willing to go back down as fast, realistically UK shipyards can easily build any number of sister ships as they were anyway building Kongo etc at the same time......

 

[McPherson]

The Kaisers were a horrible design.

Contemporaries.

The Kaiserliche Marine would have been better off building Seydlitz class ships.

 

[Spencersj345.346]

Hmmm I wonder who would have replaced Beatty if the fallout of Churchill resigning over Gallipoli had gotten him reassigned.

 

[ArtosStark]

Hmmm I wonder who would have replaced Beatty if the fallout of Churchill resigning over Gallipoli had gotten him reassigned.

My guess would be Hood. Not sure who would replace him in 3 BCS though.

 

[McPherson]

Hmmm I wonder who would have replaced Beatty if the fallout of Churchill resigning over Gallipoli had gotten him reassigned.

(Insert name here.) would have been an improvement. Beatty was that awful. I don't know what would have replaced the three BCs Beatty threw away. Maybe commandeered Kongos?

 

[Spencersj345.346]

My guess would be Hood. Not sure who would replace him in 3 BCS though.

It would probaly be either Hood or Pakenham or possibly Sturdee

 

[CV(N)-6]

The Kaisers were a horrible design.

Contemporaries.

The Kaiserliche Marine would have been better off building Seydlitz class ships.

In all seriousness, the Kaisers had a terrible gun arrangement, but were pretty well armored for the period, as well as having the same speed as other dreads. Their Orion/KGV contemporaries were way better armed, just as fast, and adequately armored, while the Delaware/Florida/Wyoming Gen USN dreadoughts weren't standards but were still durable, and with all centerline main guns (just realized the USN and RM are the only navies to have every class of BB have all centerline main guns).

 

[ArtosStark]

It would probaly be either Hood or Pakenham or possibly Sturdee

Upon further investigation, Hood would have just been returned from exile over his supposed failure in the Dover patrol. He hadn't actually failed, which was why Churchill brought him back and put him in charge of 3 BC. Though I don't think it is impossible it seems unlikely he would be moved right to command of the BCF. Sturdee might be a possibility but from what I gather he might be more similar to Beatty than desirable. But that is hindsight and speculation. Seems Pakenham might be the most senior at this point?

 

[ArtosStark]

Upon further investigation, Hood would have just been returned from exile over his supposed failure in the Dover patrol. He hadn't actually failed, which was why Churchill brought him back and put him in charge of 3 BC. Though I don't think it is impossible it seems unlikely he would be moved right to command of the BCF. Sturdee might be a possibility but from what I gather he might be more similar to Beatty than desirable. But that is hindsight and speculation. Seems Pakenham might be the most senior at this point?

Nope, have to contradict myself again. According to The Dreadnought Project Sturdee became Rear Admiral in 1908, Hood in May 1913 and Pakenham in June 1913. Pakenham had been made commander of 2nd BC on 7 March 1915, Hood had taken command of 3 BC on 27 May and Sturdee wasn't made commander of 4th BS until 7 February 1916. I gather that Sturdee was considered a bit washed up by this point though. Fisher had tried to get rid of him whenever possible, but I am not sure what Jackson thought of him. So to me that does leave Hood or Pakenham.

 

[Spencersj345.346]

Nope, have to contradict myself again. According to The Dreadnought Project Sturdee became Rear Admiral in 1908, Hood in May 1913 and Pakenham in June 1913. Pakenham had been made commander of 2nd BC on 7 March 1915, Hood had taken command of 3 BC on 27 May and Sturdee wasn't made commander of 4th BS until 7 February 1916. I gather that Sturdee was considered a bit washed up by this point though. Fisher had tried to get rid of him whenever possible, but I am not sure what Jackson thought of him. So to me that does leave Hood or Pakenham.

Or perhaps Moore would take over. Hopefully they don't pick Arbuthnot

 

[McPherson]

Delaware/Florida/Wyoming Gen USN dreadoughts weren't standards but were still durable, and with all centerline main guns (just realized the USN and RM are the only navies to have every class of BB have all centerline main guns).

Yup.

But seriously, when it comes to compartmentation and seakeeping, the Kaisers were NTG. The thing about the Americans was that the turbines were crap compared to British types. Also being coal-fired does not help.

 

[Spencersj345.346]

The thing about the Americans was that the turbines were crap compared to British types. Also being coal-fired does not help.

As I recall the US had decent turbines by WWI(the Hood's turbines were American designed but British built) but it was behind on boilers and reduction gearing and it took it well into the 20s to catch up.

 

[McPherson]

As I recall the US had decent turbines by WWI(the Hood's turbines were American designed but British built) but it was behind on boilers and reduction gearing and it took it well into the 20s to catch up.

I think the boilers were replaced by 1923. It was the cutting of the gears that was NTG. The Curtiss gearing was horrible. Kept chipping out teeth.

The turbine casings leaked and the blade tolerances were not to spec. (Curtiss again.). I think by the Tennessee Class the issues had been resolved. The thing is that for all their weight and volume that they consumed I liked the turbo-electric machinery of the period. That gave the Americans some unique advantages.

 

[Not James Stockdale]

BCR had turbos down well enough to avoid any piston engines after Oklahoma, but Oklahoma's design and the long transition period starting with North Dakota implied a lag behind British turbo technology. Reduction gearing was the big issue, and that was the reason why the Standards were electric drive ships.

 

[ArtosStark]

Or perhaps Moore would take over. Hopefully they don't pick Arbuthnot

Maybe. Moore became Rear Admiral in 1911, so he is senior over Hood and Pakenham. He had only taken over 9th Cruiser Squadron in February. Arbuthnot was Sept 1913 so he was the least senior. I know Jellicoe believed in him but I am not sure he had just gone from 2IC of 2nd BC to command of a Cruiser Squadron. Might be a bit of a jump to go to command of BCF. Especially as he already had a reputation as a robot.

 

[Sport25ing]

Kamikaze 1946, Issue No.3

Luftwaffe 1946, Issue No.2

Luftwaffe 1946, Issue No.3

 

[Sport25ing]

There is more SHIPtone of vessels incoming, but you have to wait for next week