Alternate VW Beetles?

[marathag]

The 1600 dual port VW engine can grow to 2.5 liters, at the extreme. The flat pancake, or Porsche motor, derived from the Porsche 914 never spawned the frenzy of aftermarket activity that the bug motor inspired.
It also never inspired the production activity in Brazil and Mexico.

If you were willing to do some minor modding, you could put Porsche power into the Type 1.

Buddy of mine did that.
extra power made it pretty scary, handling wise, almost as bad as the early swing axle cars were on 36hp

 

[Just Leo]

If you were willing to do some minor modding, you could put Porsche power into the Type 1.

Buddy of mine did that.
extra power made it pretty scary, handling wise, almost as bad as the early swing axle cars were on 36hp

The term "Porsche" motor can mean many different things. I've driven a '56 Bug with 26 hp, and a Porsche 911S, and the Porsche probably handled worse because the '56 couldn't go fast enough to do anything dangerous. I also had a Porsche tachometer in one of my Kampers.

I once had to do a fix on a camper van with "Porsche" motor. It went to Mexico and blew up. The owner got a Bugmotor installed, because it was cheap and available. In Mexico, they modified the throttle cable with a copper guide tube. By the time they got back, the throttle would hardly move because of a groove worn in the copper. A steel tube installed and Bob's your uncle. A rare Bug-powered Bus with automatic transmission.

 

[Salamander]

In the race for iconicity, there are winners and others. I suppose the MG Midget was the Karmann Ghia version of the Morris. The version shown is a saloon. I wonder what it's like to own a saloon.

I used to own the 2 door (coupe) version of this, with the split windscreen. 850cc engine with an oil bath air filter. Could even do the speed limit here in NZ (100 km/h). Surprisingly agile, relatively smooth ride and could handle very rough conditions. Sucked at going up hills though. And the glares from other drivers if you managed to overtake some one...

Actually managed to get it up to 100mph, down hill with a tailwind, once. Poor thing belched smoke during that run, ran smoothly afterwards, apparently I'd burnt off 40+ years of residue.

 

[PhilKearny]

Burnt off 40 years of residue? You mean nothing was left of it?

I drove one and immediately realized why the VW Beetle outsold by such a wide margin. It even made the VW Kombi pickup seem like a great car.

Poor thing belched smoke during that run, ran smoothly afterwards, apparently I'd burnt off 40+ years of residue.

 

[Just Leo]

I used to own the 2 door (coupe) version of this, with the split windscreen. 850cc engine with an oil bath air filter. Could even do the speed limit here in NZ (100 km/h). Surprisingly agile, relatively smooth ride and could handle very rough conditions. Sucked at going up hills though. And the glares from other drivers if you managed to overtake some one...

Actually managed to get it up to 100mph, down hill with a tailwind, once. Poor thing belched smoke during that run, ran smoothly afterwards, apparently I'd burnt off 40+ years of residue.

I suspect the speedometer was suffering from reduced veracity. If you had a tachometer, it would have been registering well over seven grand, and the valves floated well before that. My '70 Type 2 Camper achieved 75 mph downhill in the Smoky Mountains, verified by the Tennessee Highway Patrol, but I had oversized tires for higher gearing, and I did need the speed to make it up the other side.

 

[Masked Grizzly]

It's been awhile since I was up on VWs, but IIRC the Type 4 is the Squareback/Notchback. If so, it's a bolt-in (more/less); VW rodders have been doing it since the '80s (at least). The Wasserboxer is unlikely, if not impossible. I'm not sure there's a gain.


Excellent. A diesel 4-door?

That "notchback" variant strikes me as likely to improve sales, because it's more "conventional" than the OTL Type 1. In postwar Europe, it probably makes no diff, but in the U.S., I'd guess so.

Have read up on Wasserboxer Beetle conversions though was not sure how straightforward it is, apparently a 90 hp Wasserboxer was considered for the Type 4. Also considered for a sporty Type 4 were a 110 hp 2.0 Flat-6 as in the Porsche 914/6 as well as a 90 hp air-cooled Flat-4 Type 4 engine (presumably the 2.0), a two-door VW 411 prototype with the 2.0 Flat-4 participated in the 1969 Monte Carlo Rally finishing in 16th overall and 4th in their class, after three Porsche 911s.

A Flat-4 diesel Beetle could probably do very well in the 24 hours of Le Mons. As for the Notchback variant, it looks like it would not have dated very well.

 

[Just Leo]

Have read up on Wasserboxer Beetle conversions though was not sure how straightforward it is, apparently a 90 hp Wasserboxer was considered for the Type 4. Also considered for a sporty Type 4 were a 110 hp 2.0 Flat-6 as in the Porsche 914/6 as well as a 90 hp air-cooled Flat-4 Type 4 engine (presumably the 2.0), a two-door VW 411 prototype with the 2.0 Flat-4 participated in the 1969 Monte Carlo Rally finishing in 16th overall and 4th in their class, after three Porsche 911s.

A Flat-4 diesel Beetle could probably do very well in the 24 hours of Le Mons. As for the Notchback variant, it looks like it would not have dated very well.

I'm old enough to remember the price of a Morris Minor being $1495 and a Beetle was $1688. I wouldn't like to guess what a Porsche-engined Beetle would be. The 1.9L Wasserboxer was installed on the Vanagon, and required a rad. When your plastic coolant reservoir bottle broke, it meant that you had a defective head and needed expensive repairs. The Vanagon also got the 2.0 air-cooled, or the diesel Rabbit motor. I never saw a diesel boxer. One thing that should be discussed with additional power and speed options is front disc brakes, which apparently made it to the Ghia but I never saw them on a Bug, in North America. They would definitely come in handy at corner Mulsanne.

I navigated a club rally in an Austin Mini, and came in second, to a Bug Converible. He lost his engine hood, and put it in the back seat.

 

[Masked Grizzly]

I'm old enough to remember the price of a Morris Minor being $1495 and a Beetle was $1688. I wouldn't like to guess what a Porsche-engined Beetle would be. The 1.9L Wasserboxer was installed on the Vanagon, and required a rad. When your plastic coolant reservoir bottle broke, it meant that you had a defective head and needed expensive repairs. The Vanagon also got the 2.0 air-cooled, or the diesel Rabbit motor. I never saw a diesel boxer. One thing that should be discussed with additional power and speed options is front disc brakes, which apparently made it to the Ghia but I never saw them on a Bug, in North America. They would definitely come in handy at corner Mulsanne.

I navigated a club rally in an Austin Mini, and came in second, to a Bug Converible. He lost his engine hood, and put it in the back seat.

Fwiw regarding the Morris Minor, in around early-1950s a Q-Ship 2-door 2+2 Morris-Healey prototype with Austin-Healey 100 mechanicals powered by a 95 hp 2.5-litre Riley Twin-Cam engine was developed yet never given the green light for production.

Maybe an ATL Volkswagen could have taken a more evolutionary approach (instead of wasting money seeking Beetle replacements) by improving the Beetle (4-door, wagon, 1290-1600cc diesel Boxers, etc) as a result of rivals proving to be more competitive then in OTL, with the ATL Morris Minor for example being powered from the outset by 33-36 hp 918-980cc Wolseley Eight OHV and 37-55 hp 1140-1466cc Morris XP OHV engines (sharing detuned versions of the MG T-Type units) prior to being updated in 1956.

Here is a photo of the Volkswagen Beetle diesel prototype 1290cc Flat-4 unit.

 

[phx1138]

Have read up on Wasserboxer Beetle conversions though was not sure how straightforward it is, apparently a 90 hp Wasserboxer was considered for the Type 4.

I honestly can't imagine a water-cooled Type 1. In the Type 4, maybe.

Also considered for a sporty Type 4 were a 110 hp 2.0 Flat-6 as in the Porsche 914/6 as well as a 90 hp air-cooled Flat-4 Type 4 engine (presumably the 2.0), a two-door VW 411 prototype with the 2.0 Flat-4 participated in the 1969 Monte Carlo Rally finishing in 16th overall and 4th in their class, after three Porsche 911s.

That could be seriously cool. (I always liked the Notch a lot.) Better still if the 6 is in the KG.

As for the Notchback variant, it looks like it would not have dated very well.

In the '40s & '50s, I'm thinking the notch option would sell better, being a bit more conventional-looking. After that, the original Type 1 could stay in production, or something else could replace it: the Type 4? A watercooled Type 4? The EA266? Or maybe even the OTL Notch body style with the EA266 powerplant layout...?

 

[Masked Grizzly]

That could be seriously cool. (I always liked the Notch a lot.) Better still if the 6 is in the KG.

In the '40s & '50s, I'm thinking the notch option would sell better, being a bit more conventional-looking. After that, the original Type 1 could stay in production, or something else could replace it: the Type 4? A watercooled Type 4? The EA266? Or maybe even the OTL Notch body style with the EA266 powerplant layout...?

An even more tantalizing prospect (if somewhat unlikely) is Volkswagen developing their own air-cooled Flat-6 based on a stretched version of the 68-100 hp 1.7-2.0 Type 4 engine for use in the EA128 project (with potential use in the T2/T3 Transporter, Karmann Ghia, Volkswagen's version of the 914 and Brazilian SP2/SP3), say a 102-150 hp 2.5-3.0-litre air-cooled Flat-6. - https://drive-my.com/en/history/47-the-histories-of-porsche-and-volkswagen.html

Here is a link to references on the proposed Sporty Type 4 and more. - http://www.rastall.com/412/vw-ea240.html

 

[Delta Force]

The engine was barely sufficient to power the Volkswagen Beetle. It really shouldn't have been used to power a van. How is it going to power anything heavier?

 

[phx1138]

An even more tantalizing prospect (if somewhat unlikely) is Volkswagen developing their own air-cooled Flat-6 based on a stretched version of the 68-100 hp 1.7-2.0 Type 4 engine for use in the EA128 project (with potential use in the T2/T3 Transporter, Karmann Ghia, Volkswagen's version of the 914 and Brazilian SP2/SP3), say a 102-150 hp 2.5-3.0-litre air-cooled Flat-6. - https://drive-my.com/en/history/47-the-histories-of-porsche-and-volkswagen.html

Here is a link to references on the proposed Sporty Type 4 and more. - http://www.rastall.com/412/vw-ea240.html

So, in essence, an all-VW version of the Porsche 914? Or, at least, a more potent KG?

Too much to ask for (later) a higher-performance flat-6? Even a turbo? (Not quite 930 Turbo, but...)

Not sure the Type 2s & derivatives really needed the 6, but if it meant developing a stronger trans for the KG or Type 4s...

 

[Delta Force]

What about using something akin to the Chevrolet Corvair engine? Apparently some were even used as engine conversions to power Volkswagen Type 2 buses.

 

[Masked Grizzly]

So, in essence, an all-VW version of the Porsche 914? Or, at least, a more potent KG?

Too much to ask for (later) a higher-performance flat-6? Even a turbo? (Not quite 930 Turbo, but...)

Not sure the Type 2s & derivatives really needed the 6, but if it meant developing a stronger trans for the KG or Type 4s...

Would not want ATL Volkswagen to conflict with Porsche more then it already is by going for a turbocharged or 200 + hp Type 4-based Flat-6.

The OTL Type 2 (T3) did use an aftermarket 165-180 hp 3.2-3.7 VW-Oettinger Wasserboxer Flat-6 that was originally intended for full-production, while Porsche created a limited-edition Type 2 (T3) called the B32 that was powered by the 230 hp 3.2 Carrera engine.

Perhaps the ATL 165-180 hp 3.2-3.7 VW-Oettinger Wasserboxer Flat-6 (plus an entry-level 135 hp 2.8) can be used for the full-production Type 2 (T3), prior to eventually finding its way in South American Volkswagens such as the SP3 (along with a ATL Brazilian-built EA128 that managed to remain in production outside of Western markets like the OTL Beetle and T2).