Alternate Vulcan Users...

MacCaulay

Banned
While looking up Kiwi Vulcans, I found this picture.

Some Orenda Iroquois engines ended up at SNECMA but I don't think anything came of it.

Was this thread inspired in any way by the Kiwi Vigilante Nuclear Bomber?

It just started because I was looking up Vulcan information and found a mention of a plane that had taken an hard landing in New Zealand and was in limbo as to it's fate. So while the British were making their decision as to whether to scrap it or repair it, the RNZAF painted it with the Kiwi as a joke.

The Iroquois engines, oddly enough, wound up in France because the French were apparently very interested in using the engine for the Mirage; to the point that it was actually modified while the Arrow programme was under way.
 
As TheMann said, it would've been great if Dassault and Avro had cooperated- Canadian Mirages and French Arrows. Now if only the Brits would add their Buccs into the mix, everyone would be happy. Strike aircraft, tactical multirole fighters, and interceptors all in one big, happy multinational family. :D Now, I'd like to see a NZ Vulcan or Bucc unload on an Indonesian destroyer c. 1966....
 

Sachyriel

Banned
I thought you meant the minigun. Alternate users of that would be interesting...

*starts imagining Somalian pirates with vulcans*

whoa
 
Luxembourg gets a squadron or two of Vulcans converted to EW planes. They are all-NATO squadrons, like the historical NATO E-3 squadron that was officially part of the Luxembourg air force.
 
I haven't read or heard anything about Harriers. They were either trying or succeeding in selling them about everything else, though. If the British weren't able to sell the Argentines something that would be used against them in 1982, it was only because the French or Americans had beat them to it.

A-4Qs, Neptune search planes, AMTRACs and landing ships came from us. The Mirages, Super Entendards and Exocets came from the French. Rifles, SAMs, and mortars of all types came from the British.


Then there's my personal favourite idea for a dream air force: the Canadian all-delta wing RCAF. 10 squadrons of Arrows, 2 squadrons of search Vulcans, 1 squadron of bombers.

MacCauley,
Of course, some of the Canadian Arrows wind up in the Argentine air force; several squadrons worth. Now that could make the Falklands war more complicated.

With Argentina having Arrows and Vulcans, Brazil and Chile are looking for comparable aircraft. Brazil or Chile should likely get F-4's. F-106's would be a fun varient. Ooh, maybe F-104 interceptors for Chile? :)
 
Fourth post in a row. Okay, I'm an airplane geek. :)

MacCauley, think about this. A Vulcan fitted to launch and recover a Folland Gnat. Think of the fun.
 
Brazil tried to buy F4 in the 70's or the 80's;but the US government refused to seel saying that the F4 would destibilise the region,provoking an arms race.
 
And how is an arms race bad for American companies?

And actually, the Americans had considered offering F4s to Argentina at a lower price should Allende had remained in power in Chile.
 

MacCaulay

Banned
Fourth post in a row. Okay, I'm an airplane geek. :)

MacCauley, think about this. A Vulcan fitted to launch and recover a Folland Gnat. Think of the fun.

How on earth does every conversation about planes end up discussing the Arrow? Because it's the most awesome plane in the history of ever!

On that same vein: there was an idea once pitched for an Arrow variant that went something like this...

...the Arrow would have an enlarged internal bay, and be fitted for high-altitude flight. So the pilot would be in a space-suit like the U-2 and SR-71 pilots were, sort of thing. Then the plane would fly up to the extreme upper atmosphere, turn over on it's back and open it's weapons bay and out would shoot...a manned mini-space plane.

Bing bang boom: Canadian Manned Space Program with an Arrow launch vehicle. I probably didn't explain it that well but when I heard it explained it sure sounded believable.




juanml82: The US is normally very interested in keeping areas stable, and part of that is not introducing new weapons systems into them. A good example is the American lack of willingness to sell AMRAAMs to Australia for fear that the Indonesians would get a similar weapon from the Russians and ratchet up tensions.
 
As TheMann said, it would've been great if Dassault and Avro had cooperated- Canadian Mirages and French Arrows. Now if only the Brits would add their Buccs into the mix, everyone would be happy. Strike aircraft, tactical multirole fighters, and interceptors all in one big, happy multinational family. :D Now, I'd like to see a NZ Vulcan or Bucc unload on an Indonesian destroyer c. 1966....

The problem we'd have there Rogue is that the duties of attack squadrons would be done by the Mirage IIIs, because Canada's fighter and interception duties would have been done by the Arrows, with the heavy strike roles done by the Vulcans. If I had done my little CF wank starting after WWII, I'd have aimed for an RCAF that had 10 interceptor squadrons (CF-100 Canuck at first, transitioning to CF-105 Arrow in early 1960s), 2 squadrons heavy bombers (Vulcan B.2 or Victor B.2), 6 squadrons tactical fighters (Mirage IIIs or EE Lightnings) and 3-4 squadrons of aerial refuelers (KC-135/Boeing 707) to give them the needed range. That's in addition to all of the other stuff needed for a modern Canadian Air Force......
 
On that same vein: there was an idea once pitched for an Arrow variant that went something like this...

...the Arrow would have an enlarged internal bay, and be fitted for high-altitude flight. So the pilot would be in a space-suit like the U-2 and SR-71 pilots were, sort of thing. Then the plane would fly up to the extreme upper atmosphere, turn over on it's back and open it's weapons bay and out would shoot...a manned mini-space plane.

Bing bang boom: Canadian Manned Space Program with an Arrow launch vehicle. I probably didn't explain it that well but when I heard it explained it sure sounded believable.

Uh, have you thought that one entirely though, Mac? I don't think the Arrow is big enough for that job, myself. My idea of a long-lasting Arrow variant is to make it into a multirole aircraft, a delta-wing F-4, if you will. I'm envisioning the first Arrows entering RCAF service in 1961-62, which works great in the interceptor role. Later on, the company decides it will have difficulty selling straight interceptors, so it develops a version with bigger wings, leading edge extensions and other lift-enhancing features, more powerful engines, new avionics and weapons systems and external hardpoints, allowing the thing to carry more ordinance. This variant would be bought by the RCAF to replace some of its CF-101s and provide multi-role capability. Some of these replace existing Arrows, most don't. Many are sold here, as Canada has few qualms about selling to countries it can deal with.
 
What ? Quoi ? I heard that the "fat Mirage IV" - the Mirage IVB of 1959 - considered Orenda Iroquois along the RB-142, Olympus, and J-75.

J-75s were prefered, a prototype started in spring 1959 then cancelled because De Gaulle wanted a 100% french bombers for the nukes.
Since the Atar Mirage IV had lower performance, reliance on foreign hardware was moved to the air tankers, and KC-135s were bought .

I read a book about the world's fighter aircraft, and the Arrow entry mentioned the plane had elicited interest in France (but perhaps it was just the jet engine) before the project was killed under US pressure. So, yeah, it makes the mind wonder about the possibilities that could have opened.:cool:
 
How on earth does every conversation about planes end up discussing the Arrow?

Just the cross we have to bear.

Avro Vulcanarrow3.jpg
 
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