Alternate US Weapon development WI: Lee Navy

[marathag]

Speaking of US ideas, I came across an effort by a US sailor a couple of years ago. It isn't on a drive I can access at the mo, but this was a fully functioning battle rifle in .30 and reported as good to fire, controllable, and accurate. The US wouldn't even have the excuse/hurdle of "Not Invented Here" that gets in the way of sensible so often.

Army? Use a NAVY Rifle? Heresy!

Speaking of automatic rifles, would Browning's model 8 action have performed better than the french chauchat? Like, assuming a model 81 set up but with a semi/full auto selector switch and a solid bipod. I

With minor changes, the Model 8 could have been a Quick Change Barrel setup, with the whole front end coming apart. Factory setup was to pull the handguard and use the swivel bolt to release

But that means the Bipod will either go with the barrel assembly(heavy) or mounted to the receiver, sorta like the Chauchat

Chauchat, as modified(poorly) to use 30-06

'Carbine' Williams 2nd Prison Rifle, Model 8 in 35 Remington changed from Long Recoil to short piston/floating chamber operation
The Model 8/81 is good upto 300 Savage level of power, and that was the parent case to 308 NATO, that was a slightly bit more powerful from the Savage.

But any of these for Military Service, you need a removable top cover, like the famous AK-47, that used Browning's trigger and safety setup

for easy access, something that John Browning did not think of in 1900 for his first civilian autoloader, same for it not having an easily detachable magaine

EDIT
Now if doing a Model 8 for a Squad Automatic, I would flip the action upside down(ala PKM), and then use drum/pan feed like Lewis or Degtyaryov

 

[piratedude]

But any of these for Military Service, you need a removable top cover, like the famous AK-47,

that used Browning's trigger and safety setup for easy access, something that John Browning did not think of in 1900 for his first civilian autoloader, same for it not having an easily detachable magaine

Do you think that maybe John Pedersen could develop it into a military acceptable form by the 1909 machine gun trials? Since as i understand it, and i haven't gone digging into the ordinance corp's reports so don't quote me on it, at that point the US was explicitly looking for a light(er) air cooled machine gun that performed better than the M1895 Colt Automatic Machine Gun

 

[marathag]

Do you think that maybe John Pedersen could develop it into a military acceptable form by the 1909 machine gun trials? Since as i understand it, and i haven't gone digging into the ordinance corp's reports so don't quote me on it, at that point the US was explicitly looking for a light(er) air cooled machine gun that performed better than the M1895 Colt Automatic Machine Gun

Honestly, they could have done the improvements that were done to the Colt by Marlin, but the real answer was Lewis

 

[Driftless]

Honestly, they could have done the improvements that were done to the Colt by Marlin, but the real answer was Lewis

A couple of notions:

1. You probably need to sideline General Crozier for the Lewis Gun to get a completely fair eval.
2. Lewis Gun in a 6.5mm or 7mm? It seemed to work great in everything except the 30.06 (at least in the early days). I think even the few that went to the US Army's Pancho Villa Expedition (late in the expedition too) were .303 British. I've only seen one reference to those weapons being ordered to "British Pattern"

 

[piratedude]

You probably need to sideline General Crozier for the Lewis Gun to get a completely fair eval

I think another factor, aside from the personal, may have been at play. Crozier had gotten to see pretty much all of the previous iterations of the gun that eventually gave rise to the Lewis, so repeated exposure to all of that failure also could have built up a lot of prejudice against anything coming out of the mess that began with the MacClean automatic musket

 

[Driftless]

I think another factor, aside from the personal, may have been at play. Crozier had gotten to see pretty much all of the previous iterations of the gun that eventually gave rise to the Lewis, so repeated exposure to all of that failure also could have built up a lot of prejudice against anything coming out of the mess that began with the MacClean automatic musket

Good point. Even the widely accepted Lewis was tweaked considerably over the years. I've seen pictures of some versions with the standard-type top box magazine.

 

[Deadtroopers]

You're not thinking of the Sieg Automatic Rifle by any chance, are you?

That's the badger! Though from piratedude's bottom pic, the position of the trigger might need adjusting.

 

[piratedude]

You probably need to sideline General Crozier for the Lewis Gun to get a completely fair eval

Been thinking on who could replace Crozier, and i wonder if John Thompson couldn't land the job, and how that might affect things