Alternate Unification of China

Was Qin heavily favored by circumstances to unify China, or could any of the other warring states have plausibly united China or failed to do so, leaving the land divided for a longer time?

Beyond what differences might result from a different dynasty unifying China, what differences might result from different school of philosophies being supported by the victor?
 
Qin was very well placed. There's a reason a succession of dynasties after them all put their capital cities in the same place the Qin had theirs. The North China Plain is easy to invade, but orders of magnitude stronger than any area around it.

Whenever it's divided, though, it's geographically too open. Every state is accessible to every other, and has to risk its base to move against any other. Except for the valley in the west that first the Zhou and then Qin used to invade and dominate the whole region. If your base was there, the logistics to attack it were much worse than any other state, which had many many knock-ons.

And now I sleep.
 
What if Qin failed its expedition along the stone cattle road and so therfore does not conquer Sichuan. I think then the main candidates would Chu, or Jin Also if there is no partition of Jin I could see that state remaining quite strong. That or one of the nobel familes that paritioned Jin is able to gain an upper hand and actually restore Jin Also for something slightly differnt after the collpase of Qin you could have the second Chu state defeat the Han
 
Its my understanding that the Qin completed some serious canal works that greatly bolstered their economy over their rivals. Should we assume those were inevitable?

The Qin state and dynasty built three great canal works: the Zhenguo Canal, the Dujiangyan Irrigation System, and the Lingqu Canal (the last completed after unification). The Zhenguo was supposedly a ruse suggested by a rival state as a way to drain Qin's resources, which ended up backfiring. And the DIS was built in the conquered Sichuan valley. If another state had conquered Sichuan, perhaps they might be better positioned to unify China?
 
Qin was very well placed. There's a reason a succession of dynasties after them all put their capital cities in the same place the Qin had theirs. The North China Plain is easy to invade, but orders of magnitude stronger than any area around it.

Whenever it's divided, though, it's geographically too open. Every state is accessible to every other, and has to risk its base to move against any other. Except for the valley in the west that first the Zhou and then Qin used to invade and dominate the whole region. If your base was there, the logistics to attack it were much worse than any other state, which had many many knock-ons.

And now I sleep.

Han and Tang rulers also followed this route too. So seems whoever control Wei river valley will unify China. :rolleyes:
 
What if Qin failed its expedition along the stone cattle road and so therfore does not conquer Sichuan. I think then the main candidates would Chu, or Jin Also if there is no partition of Jin I could see that state remaining quite strong. That or one of the nobel familes that paritioned Jin is able to gain an upper hand and actually restore Jin Also for something slightly differnt after the collpase of Qin you could have the second Chu state defeat the Han
Jin was partitioned 100 years before Qin took Shu and Ba, so that isn't going to work. Maybe this could be supplemented by Chu failing to annex Yue. That way, the Jin state would likely be stronger than Chu and Qi and could stand up to Qin.
 
Jin was partitioned 100 years before Qin took Shu and Ba, so that isn't going to work. Maybe this could be supplemented by Chu failing to annex Yue. That way, the Jin state would likely be stronger than Chu and Qi and could stand up to Qin.

I respectfully disagree. If the Jin partition happens 100 years before the conquest of Shu and Ba then there is still a chance that in those 100 years the Qin will fail to rise as a great power. Another state may rise and became an analog but I doubt Qin is destined to unite China. IMO there are 1001 ways the Qin state could fail before becoming rulers of China. Of course that holds true for all the states from this period.
 
I respectfully disagree. If the Jin partition happens 100 years before the conquest of Shu and Ba then there is still a chance that in those 100 years the Qin will fail to rise as a great power. Another state may rise and became an analog but I doubt Qin is destined to unite China. IMO there are 1001 ways the Qin state could fail before becoming rulers of China. Of course that holds true for all the states from this period.
There is disagreement, and there is being incorrect. Jin was essentially (but not technically) partitioned into Han, Wei, and Zhao in 453 BCE. Meanwhile, the Qin conquests of Shu and Ba started in 316 BCE. Therefore, avoiding the Qin conquests of Sichuan does nothing to prevent the partition of Jin.

The restoration of Jin or the victory of the second Chu would be possibilities though. I think the first one is not very likely though.
 
There is disagreement, and there is being incorrect. Jin was essentially (but not technically) partitioned into Han, Wei, and Zhao in 453 BCE. Meanwhile, the Qin conquests of Shu and Ba started in 316 BCE. Therefore, avoiding the Qin conquests of Sichuan does nothing to prevent the partition of Jin.

The restoration of Jin or the victory of the second Chu would be possibilities though. I think the first one is not very likely though.

No wait there is some misunderstanding here. What I am trying to say is that a POD changing the partition of Jin is likely to result in (if there even is one.) a different expedition to Sichuan and a possible failure of the conquest.
 
No wait there is some misunderstanding here. What I am trying to say is that a POD changing the partition of Jin is likely to result in (if there even is one.) a different expedition to Sichuan and a possible failure of the conquest.
Okay. Maybe you missed a period.
What if Qin failed its expedition along the stone cattle road and so therfore does not conquer Sichuan. I think then the main candidates would Chu, or Jin Also if there is no partition of Jin I could see that state remaining quite strong. That or one of the nobel familes that paritioned Jin is able to gain an upper hand and actually restore Jin Also for something slightly differnt after the collpase of Qin you could have the second Chu state defeat the Han
But you have "then" followed by plural "candidates" so I assumed you meant Chu or Jin, which I think was a reasonable assumption.
 
For a PoD, would Jing Ke successfully killing the young king of Qin be enough to prevent the unification under Qin? Would it be enough to prevent the founding dynasty from being guided by legalist philosophy to the extent OTL's
First Emperor was?
 
Okay. Maybe you missed a period.But you have "then" followed by plural "candidates" so I assumed you meant Chu or Jin, which I think was a reasonable assumption.

I see where the confusion came from. My bad for not checking how I phrase stuff. I should have moved the part about the partition of Jin to before the part where I said that Jin and Chu would be the most likely unifiers. :eek:
 
For a PoD, would Jing Ke successfully killing the young king of Qin be enough to prevent the unification under Qin? Would it be enough to prevent the founding dynasty from being guided by legalist philosophy to the extent OTL's
First Emperor was?

I'm not sure if this would prevent Qin from uniting China. It is just likely to happen a little later then in OTL. That does make me wonder though. Without all the first Emperors wackiness would the Qin dynasty last longer?
 
Would the delay allow another warring state, like the Chu, to unite China instead, or is it pretty much going to be the Qin at this point?

Barring some unforeseeable event (An alliance of the other states against Qin.) I would say that it pretty much is Qin by this point. However it is possible that the delay would allow Chu to survive for atleast some time. I'm not 100% sure about this though. It would all really depend on the ambition of the new Qin King and the competency of the other warring states.
 
Top