Alternate Superpowers Of The Ancient World

Minoans. Minoans for everyone.




At least in my mind they could have been an interesting empire.

Butterfly Thera Eruption (or make it much less severe) and you'll have a good shot at it ... it buried their primary non-Cretan city and sent a tsunami over Crete salting their fields
 

katchen

Banned
Mithrqadites VI manages to defeat Sulla. Pontus becomes a superpower allied with Sarmatia and centered on the Black Sea-(-possibly extending up the Danube River) and to the Caspian Sea, including Armenia.
 
the Mayans probably count IOTL; though they weren't as expansive as the Romans, they were also the leading civilization in their region and collapsed much like the Romans

more to the question at hand, the best candidates are probably the Persian Empire, the Minoans, or the Macedonians. if you want to go a bit further out of the traditional regions of the ancient world, you could also consider the Aksumites, the Chinese, and the Indians (particularly, the Mauryan dynasty comes to mind). i'm pretty sure there was also an Indonesian state at that time (or they rose up in the Middle Ages at least)
 
Were the Achaemenid and Seleucid Empires not ancient superpowers?

They were, but not on the scale of Rome.

The Achaemenid Empire covered an area of 8 million sq.kms against the Roman Empire with an area of 6.5 million sq.kms. Further the Achaemenid Empire had a population of 50 million, 44% of the then world population. The Sassanid Empire also had an area of 6.6 million sq.kms and a population of 80 millions, 38% of the population at that time. In the percentage of population the Achaemenid Empire was not surpassed even by the British Empire (20% of the world population) and the Mongol Empire (25.6% of the population), which were the largest empires in the history.
 
The Achaemenid Empire covered an area of 8 million sq.kms against the Roman Empire with an area of 6.5 million sq.kms. Further the Achaemenid Empire had a population of 50 million, 44% of the then world population. The Sassanid Empire also had an area of 6.6 million sq.kms and a population of 80 millions, 38% of the population at that time. In the percentage of population the Achaemenid Empire was not surpassed even by the British Empire (20% of the world population) and the Mongol Empire (25.6% of the population), which were the largest empires in the history.

Where are you taking these figures from? I understand that the estimated population of the Achaemenid Empire was around 25 millions, not 50.
 
Simply because of geography, Western Europe has more chances for a big empire. Politically, definitely the East. Lydian-wank anyone????
 
Simply because of geography, Western Europe has more chances for a big empire. Politically, definitely the East. Lydian-wank anyone????

Western Europe has only produced one such empire... maybe 2 if you count the Franks.

But if you are aiming for western European empires in the ancient world, though, I'd look into the Lusitani or Celtiberian Confederation, the Arverni (or another major Gallic tribe like the Bituriges, Aedui, or Sequani), the Suebi, Liburnians, Samnites, Syracuse (or even Gela, or Taras), or if you really want to go crazy, looking into a successful Spartacus would be interesting

Other options outside of Western Europe include Pontus, Ptolemaic Egypt, the Seleucids (a successful Antiochus III), Cassander's Macedon, or a surviving Argead Empire, Epirus, Numidia, the Hittites, Cimmerians, Tigranes' Armenia, the Mauryans already were, but if they went further... the Xiongnu, the Tocharians, the Sarmatians, Roxalani, Dacians, Scordisci, the Dardanians, Thracians, the Spartans, Athenians, Thebans, Medians, Lydians, Phrygians, and to finish it off, the Kushites
 

Zirantun

Banned
Weren't the Samnites divided tribes. I'm not sure how they could dominate the Mediterranean?


And the Latins were one of Italy's tiniest minorities, yet they somehow came to dominate the Mediterranean. I'm sure at the time, if you said that Latin sheep herders would one day rule the known world, a Samnite would have laughed in your face. Such a timeline would have very interesting effects of linguistics. I've always found the Osco-Umbrian languages to be very interesting. Descendants would be Romance... but not quite.


And how about an Illyrian Mediterranean? Perhaps a Finnish Scandinavia, with Finno-Ugrians as a raiding culture instead of Vikings? Or, something that has always waved my flag, is a Galatian Anatolia... maybe I'll do a timeline on that... later. I'm a little busy with the current two.
 
Where are you taking these figures from? I understand that the estimated population of the Achaemenid Empire was around 25 millions, not 50.

I read it in the wikipedia. Picked it from the "List of largest empires". en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List of largest empires.
The British Empire was the largest empire with an area of 33.7 million sq.kms (13.01 million sq.mls). It had a population of 458 millions in 1938. 20% of 2.295 billions at the time. The Mongol Empire was the second largest with an area of 24 million sq.kms (9.3 million sq.miles) and a population of 110 million in the 13th century. 25.6% of a population of 429 millions at the time. Next in the list are (3) Russian Empire-22.8 million sq.kms(8.8 million sq.miles), (4) Spanish Empire-19.42 million sq.kms (7.5 million sq.miles), (5) Umayyad Caliphate-15 million sq.kms (5.79 million sq.miles). But their population percentages are less.
The Quing Empire in the 6th place had an area of 14.7 million sq.kms (5.68 million sq.mls) and a population of 432.2 millions (36.6%) in 1851. Achaemenid Empire in the 13th place in area (8 million sq.kms/3.08 million sq.mls) had a population of 50 millions out of 113.6 millions in 480 B.C.E. as per this list. The Sassanid Empire (6.6 million sq.kms/2.55 million sq.mls) had a population of 80 millions (38% of 210 millions) in 7th century. The Mauryan Empire (6 million sq.kms/2.32 million sq.mls) had a population of 68 millions (43.3% of 150 millions) in 2nd century B.C.E.
 
Could someone give me a POD for that, please?
PoD 1: Sennacherib doesn't go off his rocker and sack Babylon, leaving one less group of people to revolt against the Assyrians
PoD 2: Assurbanipal dies c. 10-20 years earlier and manages to stop the Elamite attack on Babylon earlier.
Actually, come to think of it, maybe Elam would be a good candidate for an alternate superpower.
 
Davidic Empire. Accepting generous theories of the United Kingdom, avoiding the Samaritan secession, and with the religion eventually developing a proselytizing zeal.
 
Davidic Empire. Accepting generous theories of the United Kingdom, avoiding the Samaritan secession, and with the religion eventually developing a proselytizing zeal.

Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

Bruce
 
PoD 1: Sennacherib doesn't go off his rocker and sack Babylon, leaving one less group of people to revolt against the Assyrians
PoD 2: Assurbanipal dies c. 10-20 years earlier and manages to stop the Elamite attack on Babylon earlier.
Actually, come to think of it, maybe Elam would be a good candidate for an alternate superpower.

I think POD 1 is best, but that's just my opinion. Any volunteers for such a TL?
 
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