Alternate South Africa

Abdul Hadi Pasha

Banned
In the TL I'm working on, Africa is quite different.

In this TL, the British don't occupy Egypt and thus have a much stronger diplomatic hand elsewhere, thus no German colonies in Africa (which I think would actually be better for Germany), as well as no French Tunis. The Scramble is different, slower, and leans a bit more toward informal empire than in OTL.

The British acquire Delagoa Bay from Portugal in return for some cash and approval of part of the Pink Map, so British territory in South Africa is roughly analogous to today's South Africa, Namibia, Botswana, Lesotho, Swaziland, and Zimbabwe. Most of these are similar to historical - Bechuanaland Protectorate (Botswana) is a bit bigger at the expense of "Namibia", and Delagoa Bay is attached to Natal. It borders only on Portuguese territory stretching all the way across the continent to the north.

I suppose there would be no Jameson Raid, and no rail line from the Transvaal to the sea means economic subordination to the Cape. Britain by the late 90s is in the heyday of imperial sentiment, and I would imagine there's a desire to federate everything into one large entity.

The question is, how would this be structured? The Whites in the region were anxious to subordinate the non-Whites, especially the Black population, whereas the British tended to defend native rights, at least by the standards of the time.

I had envisioned a customs union and a some sort of loose political union, with Lesotho, Swaziland, Bechuanaland, and "Namibia" as native-ruled, but I'm not sure about the rest. I think this would be more British-oriented than Boer, the reverse of OTL. What do you think would be the nature of a political union? Mostly local autonomy for the constituent parts with some sort of Federal council to deal with common issues, perhaps headed by the British High Commissioner?

Also, if German SW Africa is British, how would you imagine this being structured? The population is so low (around 200,000) that I was thinking it would be one protectorate, although it's large in size with diversity in its population - perhaps it would be subdivided into more tribally homogenous units.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.
 

Ofaloaf

Abdul Hadi Pasha said:
Also, if German SW Africa is British, how would you imagine this being structured? The population is so low (around 200,000) that I was thinking it would be one protectorate, although it's large in size with diversity in its population - perhaps it would be subdivided into more tribally homogenous units.
Click to expand...
Why not copy from the American model of the west, giving the region a territorial governor (with a more appropriate name) and something modelled after the Office of Indian Affairs to oversee the tribal units?
 
The Professor

The Professor

Hmmm.
Maybe have a Governor-General for the region with Provinces under Lt-Governors and/or Commissioners, and more autonomous Tribal States.
Sort of similar to British India with its Provinces, Presidencies, and Princely States.
The Governor-General could then head a Council of Provinces which oversees the customs union and other pan-South-African affairs.
Each Province and Tribal State could then have differing degrees of autonomy within the British South African Union.
 

Al-Buraq

Banned
Are the Transvaal and OFS still independent Boer Republics?
If Delagoa Bay had been purchased a railway would have been put in place very quickly and the lines from Newcastle and Ladysmith taken through to Pretoria and the Reef once gold had been discovered.
The delay of railways were purely and solely due to Kruger, for mainly personal financial reasons ( family control of the drifts) and political reasons (only uitlanders had Railway technology) he resisted railways entering the ZAR. When the first commuter train was established to run from Johannesburg to Boksburg it was called The Rand Tram as Kruger ad promised that no "Engine of the Devil" (i.e. a train) would enter the republic.

The key to British administration of low density population Africa was the District Commissioner--despite its very grand title this was usually a young man in his late teens, early twenties who would travel around the territory consulting with the tribal chiefs, dispensing justice and imposing fines often assisted by a native constable or two. There is an amusing if corny film made in pre-1965 Rhodesia about the adventures of one and a novel set in Kenya the names of neither I can recall at the moment.
 

Abdul Hadi Pasha

Banned
Ofaloaf said:
Why not copy from the American model of the west, giving the region a territorial governor (with a more appropriate name) and something modelled after the Office of Indian Affairs to oversee the tribal units?
Click to expand...

That's probably a good idea - pretty similar to the British system.

The Professor said:
Hmmm.
Maybe have a Governor-General for the region with Provinces under Lt-Governors and/or Commissioners, and more autonomous Tribal States.
Sort of similar to British India with its Provinces, Presidencies, and Princely States.
The Governor-General could then head a Council of Provinces which oversees the customs union and other pan-South-African affairs.
Each Province and Tribal State could then have differing degrees of autonomy within the British South African Union.
Click to expand...

In OTL the Governor of Cape Colony also doubled as the High Commissioner with responsibility for Lesotho, Swaziland, and Bechuanaland - when in 1910 the Union was created the Governor-General position was created which was also High Commissioner. Perhaps that's the way to go, with the Governor-General having control over the native areas, and only Cape, Natal, Orange Free State, Transvaal, and Rhodesia being provinces of the Union.

Al-Buraq said:
Are the Transvaal and OFS still independent Boer Republics?
If Delagoa Bay had been purchased a railway would have been put in place very quickly and the lines from Newcastle and Ladysmith taken through to Pretoria and the Reef once gold had been discovered.
The delay of railways were purely and solely due to Kruger, for mainly personal financial reasons ( family control of the drifts) and political reasons (only uitlanders had Railway technology) he resisted railways entering the ZAR. When the first commuter train was established to run from Johannesburg to Boksburg it was called The Rand Tram as Kruger ad promised that no "Engine of the Devil" (i.e. a train) would enter the republic.

The key to British administration of low density population Africa was the District Commissioner--despite its very grand title this was usually a young man in his late teens, early twenties who would travel around the territory consulting with the tribal chiefs, dispensing justice and imposing fines often assisted by a native constable or two. There is an amusing if corny film made in pre-1965 Rhodesia about the adventures of one and a novel set in Kenya the names of neither I can recall at the moment.
Click to expand...

I've read about some individual commissioners that were pretty young, but I didn't realize they were institutionally so young.

With regard to railways, Kruger resisted them because he didn't want to be subordinated to the Cape. He eagerly pursued setting up a RR to Delagoa Bay, and the British did everything they could to stop him, because they did want to subordinate Transvaal to the Cape. I would think Cape interests would strongly - and successfully - oppose a rail line to Delagoa from the Transvaal.

The POD is in 1876, so there is probably a bit of mess to be had with regard to the independence of the Republics - I'll have to think about who the POD affects British policy, because there is no war scare with Russia in 1878, so there might be more attention available for South Africa.
 

Nugax

Namibia probably won't be one territory which was a result of german control, there will IMO be a Walvis Bay + Khomas settler region as its pretty attractive for that (and the intersection of Khosians and Bantu makes for a confused area settlers will exploit), with the northeast and most of the south added to a larger 'Botswana' of native lands, a slight Cape extension over the Orange river and a northwest region for the black Africans.

This northwest region might be traded to Portugal for the Zimbabwe plateau or Delagoa bay as part of a settlement as its pretty much a continuation of southern Algeria geographically and linguistically.

The isolated settler region will probably want to deal with Britain directly much like Western Australia. In fact I'm of the opinion that most of the English speaking coast regions will be wanting direct links to the homeland so that their special interests can be perused without interference.With less pressure from the Boer wars Britain might let each major city+periphery (Port Elizabeth, East London, Griqualand East, Kimberley, Walvis Bay), be its own state in a loose overall confederation rather than making the large Cape Province.
 

Abdul Hadi Pasha

Banned
Nugax said:
Namibia probably won't be one territory which was a result of german control, there will IMO be a Walvis Bay + Khomas settler region as its pretty attractive for that (and the intersection of Khosians and Bantu makes for a confused area settlers will exploit), with the northeast and most of the south added to a larger 'Botswana' of native lands, a slight Cape extension over the Orange river and a northwest region for the black Africans.

This northwest region might be traded to Portugal for the Zimbabwe plateau or Delagoa bay as part of a settlement as its pretty much a continuation of southern Algeria geographically and linguistically.

The isolated settler region will probably want to deal with Britain directly much like Western Australia. In fact I'm of the opinion that most of the English speaking coast regions will be wanting direct links to the homeland so that their special interests can be perused without interference.With less pressure from the Boer wars Britain might let each major city+periphery (Port Elizabeth, East London, Griqualand East, Kimberley, Walvis Bay), be its own state in a loose overall confederation rather than making the large Cape Province.
Click to expand...

Walvis Bay is definitely part of Cape Colony.

As for the rest, what you write is largely what I was thinking. Something like half the population is Owambo, concentrated in the North - Probably an Owamboland is warranted. I had intended to add the deserty regions in the SE and NE to Bechuanaland as it makes more sense administratively and ethnically.

Cape Colony is already just about at it's eventual size by the POD, so it will probably be pretty big in this ATL as well. Griqualand East was annexed prior to the POD.

I hadn't thought much about settlement of the interior of Namibia, but it does make sense. Perhaps a further "White" state would result here in combination with Walvis Bay.
 

maverick

Banned
I wonder what Edt has to say about this, since he's been researching this for FaBR.

*Lights Edt Signal*


Not knowing much about this, I do have to wonder about French attempts to colonize that vast swamp of desert they got IOTL, taking into account that IOTL Sudan, Egypt and Libya are not up for grabs, and presumably, neither is Buganda.
 

Abdul Hadi Pasha

Banned
maverick said:
I wonder what Edt has to say about this, since he's been researching this for FaBR.

*Lights Edt Signal*


Not knowing much about this, I do have to wonder about French attempts to colonize that vast swamp of desert they got IOTL, taking into account that IOTL Sudan, Egypt and Libya are not up for grabs, and presumably, neither is Buganda.
Click to expand...

French West Africa's seeds are already sown, I think. Algeria was conquered beginning in 1830, and their presence in Senegal and along the Ivory Coast is centuries old. Probably they will have much less in the Central Sahara where they are in competition with the Ottomans and Sokoto Empire, the former having an immense head start. On the other hand, not having two or three oases and a bunch of unruly Tuareg to worry about is not exactly an eclipse of French power.

What's FaBR?
 

Douglas

I didn't see it in the OP, but a big part of it, frankly, depends on how the Boers have been "dealt with", if at all. Are they grudging British subjects, or do they have semi-independent states, or have they re-Trekked into OTL Zambia and Zimbabwe? What is the interest in Z & Z without a realizable goal of a Cape-Cairo railway to inspire Cecil Rhodes?
 

maverick

Banned
Abdul Hadi Pasha said:
I know the TL - I just didn't make the connection to the acronym. I wasn't thinking of it because it's such a later period than I'm dealing with.
Click to expand...

I thought your TL had a Pod in 1878-1877, two year after Edt's POD, for which the story takes place in the 1880s and 1890s.
 

Abdul Hadi Pasha

Banned
Douglas said:
I didn't see it in the OP, but a big part of it, frankly, depends on how the Boers have been "dealt with", if at all. Are they grudging British subjects, or do they have semi-independent states, or have they re-Trekked into OTL Zambia and Zimbabwe? What is the interest in Z & Z without a realizable goal of a Cape-Cairo railway to inspire Cecil Rhodes?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure, really. I would assume something like the 1st Boer War happened. If the British acquire Delagoa Bay from Portugal, the Boers can either resist from within the system or go to war again.

Zimbabwe is Rhodes', but Zambia is split between Zanzibar and Portugal. British South Africa is bordered the entire width of the continent by Portuguese territory.

In OTL, a lot of the direction of British expansion was aimed at cutting off the Boers. Cape-to-Cairo was a motivator, but was really unimportant to British statesmen, and while Rhodes could be a dreamer, he did tend to keep his mind on actual business concerns. Keeping Delagoa Bay out of the hands of the Boers would be much more important to him than Cape to Cairo.
 

Abdul Hadi Pasha

Banned
maverick said:
I thought your TL had a Pod in 1878-1877, two year after Edt's POD, for which the story takes place in the 1880s and 1890s.
Click to expand...

Hmm. OK, I'll have to look. I seem to remember him starting in the 30s, but I was gone for a while so I'm not up to date on that thread.
 

Ridwan Asher

What still makes me curious until now is how this alternate South Africa be managed from London. Will it still be elevated into self-governing Dominionship, or instead become a Crown Colony ? Because, ITTL white Boers will be subjugated and that negates the counter effect to the fact that this apparently larger South Africa will be even more majority Black...
 
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