Discounting victory spoils from a Great War, what are some plausible alternate possibilities for a German colonial empire with a POD of 1836?
(Yes, I am fishing for Vicky 2 ideas
)
(Yes, I am fishing for Vicky 2 ideas
)Alternate Prussian/German colonies
- Thread starter Snowstalker
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Discounting victory spoils from a Great War, what are some plausible alternate possibilities for a German colonial empire with a POD of 1836?
(Yes, I am fishing for Vicky 2 ideas
In the course of the nineteenth century many attempt had been undertaken to establish "New Germanies" in North America. None were successful. Perhaps the most curious events are those which concerned California in mid-century. Mexico offered the territory of California in 1843 to Prussia for six million dollars. Representatives of the Prussian government in Washington and London were negotiating the matter when suddenly and unexpectedly Prussia withdrew from the Negotiations .One may only speculate as to what a German nation on the North American continent under Prussian protection might have meant for future political developments.
Sauce:
http://germanamericanpioneers.org/GermansinCalifornia.htm
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/attachment.php?attachmentid=109366&d=1281251091
Not much is left. The America's are out. Australia is out. India, Indonesia and Malaysia are out. Some major parts of Africa, like South Africa, Mocambique, Angola, the Gold Coast, etc are out. So what is left? Well the rest of Africa, although France and several other colonial powers have the advantage over Germany there. Oceania. Maybe Indo-China, although the French had the advantage there. Basicly, the only parts left are the parts noone cared about. Like OTL.
Actualy i would say that Germany would be better of if it kept itself away from colonies and let other people care about some far away scraps of the earth that turn a nett loss.
Africa could easily have gone differently, in many areas of Central and Southern. The Congo, Kenya/Uganda etc were all protentially different.
And the Pacific was more or less open to efforts, and many powers had sailing cruisers there, meeting native leaders, imposing protectorates not all of which were finalised or respected.
The Philippines also could have gone differently in 1898, there were German cruisers in Manila.
Best Regards
Grey Wolf
And the Pacific was more or less open to efforts, and many powers had sailing cruisers there, meeting native leaders, imposing protectorates not all of which were finalised or respected.
The Philippines also could have gone differently in 1898, there were German cruisers in Manila.
Best Regards
Grey Wolf
Just some areas where the Germans were involved IOTL but failed to stay:
- present-day Guinea
- southern Somalia
- the Congo river
- Mahin (coastal town in Nigeria, southwest of Benin [not the country])
- Witu (eastern Kenya)
- St. Lucia Bay (KwaZulu-Natal)
- Pondoland (part of the historic Kaffraria region in the Eastern Cape)
- parts of Burkina Faso (in the lands of the Gurma people)
- Gwandu (historic kingdom in northwestern Nigeria)
- Tonga
- New Hebrides/Vanuatu
- Morocco
Other places that might be interesting for Germans:
- Haiti (had heavy German investment IOTL)
- the Philippines
- present-day Taiwan
- Patagonia
- present-day Guinea
- southern Somalia
- the Congo river
- Mahin (coastal town in Nigeria, southwest of Benin [not the country])
- Witu (eastern Kenya)
- St. Lucia Bay (KwaZulu-Natal)
- Pondoland (part of the historic Kaffraria region in the Eastern Cape)
- parts of Burkina Faso (in the lands of the Gurma people)
- Gwandu (historic kingdom in northwestern Nigeria)
- Tonga
- New Hebrides/Vanuatu
- Morocco
Other places that might be interesting for Germans:
- Haiti (had heavy German investment IOTL)
- the Philippines
- present-day Taiwan
- Patagonia
Since Prussia did not conquer all the Germanic speaking parts of Europe (yes, I know that statement is a broad generalization ignoring Austria etc.) Grrmany was late in joining the colonization game. By 1900, Germany only had 4. African colonies: Tanzania, Nambia, Cameroon and Togo. Togo was little more than a port/city state.
Perhaps Germany could have annexed Chilean islands to secure the supply of nitrates to German chemical industry.
Kings of smaller Pacific or Indian Ocean Islands might be coerced into joining the Prussian Zollverein.
Perhaps Germany could have annexed Chilean islands to secure the supply of nitrates to German chemical industry.
Kings of smaller Pacific or Indian Ocean Islands might be coerced into joining the Prussian Zollverein.
Bechuanaland / Botswana was thought of for a long time as possible German territory to extend German Southwest Africa, but that was scrapped.
Perhaps an extended Caprivi Treaty would give more of Bechuanaland to German Southwest Africa (likely most of the Northwest) while the rich diamond producing areas in the southeast are untouched.
It would rid Britain of an unprofitable protectorate and give Germany more prestige (and useless territory).
Perhaps an extended Caprivi Treaty would give more of Bechuanaland to German Southwest Africa (likely most of the Northwest) while the rich diamond producing areas in the southeast are untouched.
It would rid Britain of an unprofitable protectorate and give Germany more prestige (and useless territory).
They really aren't. OTL, Haiti was virtually a German colony; it was run almost entirely by a group of rich Germans. Even today, most members of the Haitian upper class have a German ancestor or two from that era. All you have to do to get Haiti is to formalize the status quo in Haiti; perhaps a group of German businessmen there pull a Hawaii and ask for annexation?
Germany also did have heavy investment and immigration to other parts of Latin America, albeit to a less extreme extent, so you could have similar situations arise there. Looking outside of the Americas, Prussia was offered Taiwan (I can't remember the circumstances) but didn't go through with it. Prussia could also easily get involved in Indonesia; even Austria-Hungary almost got in there. Germany also could have gotten some Portuguese colonies such as Angola or Mozambique. OTL, the British were considering supporting a turnover of them to Germany. Germany was also interested in the Philippines, but the Americans beat them there. It's not too hard to create a POD keeping America away for a while; like if Hawaii isn't annexed, depriving them of a coaling stop, or if they can't get a casus belli against Spain.
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TFSmith121
Banned
Be contrarian - why not stay in Europe?
Be contrarian - why not stay in Europe?
Do the whole "Der Grosser GrosDeustchland" deal ... Denmark, the Faeroes, Iceland, Norway, Sweden, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Austria, etc.
If the POD is after the establishment of the Empire in 1871, realistically none of the above are in a position to do much more than die gallantly, if the Germans are willing to go to the knife, and none of them really have obvious allies.
Best,
Discounting victory spoils from a Great War, what are some plausible alternate possibilities for a German colonial empire with a POD of 1836? (Yes, I am fishing for Vicky 2 ideas
Be contrarian - why not stay in Europe?
Do the whole "Der Grosser GrosDeustchland" deal ... Denmark, the Faeroes, Iceland, Norway, Sweden, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Austria, etc.
If the POD is after the establishment of the Empire in 1871, realistically none of the above are in a position to do much more than die gallantly, if the Germans are willing to go to the knife, and none of them really have obvious allies.
Best,
Yes, but Togo also was the only African colony that made a profit for Germany instead of big losses.
Germans colonized like the Irish did; by moving places and becoming integral to the local, regional and national cultures. I'm thinking Milwaukee, Buenos Aires, etc. What if Germans took a liking to Greece in the decades after 1848 and basically became the elite there a la the Baltics?
I agree with the person who said it would have been better for Germany to have eschewed colonies altogether and aimed for domestic investment and the projection of economic power east and southeastward.
I agree with the person who said it would have been better for Germany to have eschewed colonies altogether and aimed for domestic investment and the projection of economic power east and southeastward.
This is far-fetched but let's say the 1870 war is not a total victory for the Prussians. Like the French manage to get in some body blows of their own and by the TTL's battle of Sedan the Prussians are the winners, but are not in the shape to ask for Alsace-Lorraine.
So, deciding that a colony will ease the prestige loss of not getting A-L, they take Algeria. Were there a lot of Frenchmen there in 1871? They could call it the Germania of Africa or something of that sort.
So, deciding that a colony will ease the prestige loss of not getting A-L, they take Algeria. Were there a lot of Frenchmen there in 1871? They could call it the Germania of Africa or something of that sort.
Etto Bismarck did was interested in bite that, but the southern german princes(Baden and Wuttenrburg) wanted a 'sanitarie cordon' alongside france if another war would happened, thus push A-L over colonies.
With that,,,maybe germany would push for Hainan and Formosa/taiwan?
AussieHawker
Banned
Was it possible for a European power to take Manchuria? It wasn't filled with Disease like Africa and it was being colonised by Han Chinese during the time. Maybe instead it is colonised by Germans.
Kingpoleon
Banned
Hmm... Perhaps an intervention in the Civil War gets Germany Florida or the New York City area depending on which side it joins?