alternate party system

JoeMulk

Banned
genusmap.php


This is an map for the 2008 elections in the timeline that i'm working on that diverges in the 1930's. States in Gray were won by the Conservative Party, Red by the Socialist Party and Blue by the Liberal Party. The premise is that a conservative Democrat like John Garner was elected instead of FDR, which lead to a stronger Socialist movement resulting in Huey Long's election in 1936 with a Long/Thomas Share Our Wealth/Socialist Fusion ticket. The Republicans went the way of the Whigs and many Liberal Republicans and Liberal Democrats formed a Liberal Party in response. Taftites also formed a Conservative Party and the Democrats were basically left with the solid south until they disappeared also after Conservatives started reaching out to them. In the present day the electoral college has been abolished and there is a Left-Wing and Right-Wing coalition in congress competing for power, each of which includes several minor parties like Christian Democrats and Greens. The Centrist Party goes between the two coalitions.
 
Interesting. Does the Socialist Party still resemble what we think of IOTL as socialism? And do the various states have similar cultural leanings to OTL?

Was the Electoral College removed by Constitutional Amendment or was the Constitution itself essentially abandoned?
 

JoeMulk

Banned
Interesting. Does the Socialist Party still resemble what we think of IOTL as socialism? And do the various states have similar cultural leanings to OTL?

Was the Electoral College removed by Constitutional Amendment or was the Constitution itself essentially abandoned?

by amendment, and yes...states with strong labor unions go Socialist and I imagined Unions being stronger ITTL.
 
Hmm. I'd flip California to red and Pennsylvania to blue. Washington (state) should probably flip blue.

Massachusetts is certainly correct.

Those are the only states I've lived in.
 
My main question would be why Taftite isolationist and elitist Republicanism would be so popular in the South? I also think that the last window for a group calling themselves 'Socialist' to be mainstream ended in the Red Scare of the early 20s.
I would have Roosevelt win with large Democratic majorities and then die abruptly, leaving Garner the presidency. Long runs an abortive and ill-planned campaign, but the Republicans idiotically nominate Taft or Hoover again and lose to Garner despite the Democratic split.
Long works hard over the next four years to build a party with the support of the CIO. They'll call themselves the American Worker's, Labor, or People's Party rather than 'Socialist'.
The Republicans, having learned their lesson, nominate liberal Thomas Dewey in 40, and Taft and other conservatives quit the party in disgust and back the Democrats, who nominate Harry Byrd.

So you have
Byrd/Taft Democrat/Conservative
Dewey/Willkie Republican/Liberal
Long/Lewis New Party
After the war these coalitions become formalized.
 
The main differences would be Taft going to the Dixiecrats, who have more of a base, rather than vice-versa, and the working-class party not being called socialist.

I would also, regarding your electoral map, make the Upper Midwest more red, the Northeast more blue, and the Plains more grey. California would pivot between all three, I think.
 

JoeMulk

Banned
My main question would be why Taftite isolationist and elitist Republicanism would be so popular in the South? I also think that the last window for a group calling themselves 'Socialist' to be mainstream ended in the Red Scare of the early 20s.
I would have Roosevelt win with large Democratic majorities and then die abruptly, leaving Garner the presidency. Long runs an abortive and ill-planned campaign, but the Republicans idiotically nominate Taft or Hoover again and lose to Garner despite the Democratic split.
Long works hard over the next four years to build a party with the support of the CIO. They'll call themselves the American Worker's, Labor, or People's Party rather than 'Socialist'.
The Republicans, having learned their lesson, nominate liberal Thomas Dewey in 40, and Taft and other conservatives quit the party in disgust and back the Democrats, who nominate Harry Byrd.

So you have
Byrd/Taft Democrat/Conservative
Dewey/Willkie Republican/Liberal
Long/Lewis New Party
After the war these coalitions become formalized.

I think that the potential for a Socialist movement could have existed for a very short period of time during the great depression, people were willing to turn to drastic solutions in tough times. My thought was that the Republicans disappear because after someone like Long got elected a lot of former Republican districts in places like the midwest would flip Socialist as the Republicans being seen as the party of the big wigs would still be blamed for the depression. Taft could have lost his senate seat in Ohio also. Eventually they would have no support, be bankrupt and whoever was left would go over to the Liberal Party.

I could see your scenario going somewhere also though.
 

JoeMulk

Banned
I think that the potential for a Socialist movement could have existed for a very short period of time during the great depression, people were willing to turn to drastic solutions in tough times. My thought was that the Republicans disappear because after someone like Long got elected a lot of former Republican districts in places like the midwest would flip Socialist as the Republicans being seen as the party of the big wigs would still be blamed for the depression. Taft could have lost his senate seat in Ohio also. Eventually they would have no support, be bankrupt and whoever was left would go over to the Liberal Party.

I could see your scenario going somewhere also though.

Actually yours works and it kind of fits into what I envisioned. I imagined that with many ethnic minorities including Blacks and Jews going to the Socialists the only ones left in the Democrats would be the Irish machines in the north and the solid south and that they would become increasingly anti-semitic as a result and Isolationist and might even nominate someone like Burton K Wheeler in 1940. Huey Long might try to feed on that kind of populism also which is why the Liberal Party would emerge which would support amnesty for those fleeing Europe and taking a confrontational stance towards nazi Germany. Maybe the Liberal Party would nominate Fiorello LaGuardia as the first nominee.
 
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