Alternate occupation zones in Germany and Austria?

I was wondering, could Germany and Austria realistically have been divided among the allied in a different way than in OTL? And what would the consequences have been of alternate divisions? A particularly interesting scenario would be if the Soviet Union got control of Bavaria, which could have implied that they would have a geographically united occupation zone instead of two geographically separated ones. If so, parts of both Austria and Germany would probably become part of the GDR, while the rest of Austria would become part of the Federal Republic. Would such a scenario have been possible?
 
Austria was treated as separate from Germany in the zoning, so it would probably not be part of the Bundesrepublik, but one never knows ...

On the other hand, Bavaria is the only part of Germany with strong separatism, so if we have BDR instead of DDR for forty years, does this mean that Bavaria is definitely divorced from Germany, like OTL Austria, or has Bavarian separatism become tainted with communism and Soviet occupation?

And then we have the Berlin Wall around the Bavarian sector ... (=East Berlin).

Another version: It might be an even more interesting case if the Soviet Zone is completely cut off from the Warsaw Pact, so give the Russians the Rhineland and the French can have Brandenburg.
 
Last edited:
Austria was treated as separate from Germany in the zoning, so it would probably not be part of the Bundesrepublik, but one never knows ...

On the other hand, Bavaria is the only part of Germany with strong separatism, so if we have BDR instead of DDR for forty years, does this mean that Bavaria is definitely divorced from Germany, like OTL Austria, or has Bavarian separatism become tainted with communism and Soviet occupation?

And then we have the Berlin Wall around the Bavarian sector ...

If the Soviet Union still gets the eastern part of Austria, it would be the part with the most people. I would assume that if the Soviet Union had made its two occupation zones into a Soviet puppet state, the rest of Austria would be so small in population that they would probably join the Bundesrepublik. I agree that with such a division it would be less likely that Bavaria would be reunited after an ATL fall of communism, although some areas, like Franconia and Swabia might perhaps split off.
 
I was wondering, could Germany and Austria realistically have been divided among the allied in a different way than in OTL? And what would the consequences have been of alternate divisions? A particularly interesting scenario would be if the Soviet Union got control of Bavaria, which could have implied that they would have a geographically united occupation zone instead of two geographically separated ones. If so, parts of both Austria and Germany would probably become part of the GDR, while the rest of Austria would become part of the Federal Republic. Would such a scenario have been possible?

Probably not. Explanations:

1. While Bavaria has a strong regional identity, it did not have a significant separatist movement in the 1940s. The Allies specifically discounted breaking Germany into multiple countries, on the grounds that there weren't strong enough separatist feelings for such a split to be stable. (In contrast, a defeated Nazi super-Belgium would've been split into Wallonia and Flanders.)

2. Austria did, in contrast, have a strong enough identity separate from Germany's that the Allies treated it as a separate country. It also involved a divide and rule strategy: in Allied propaganda, Germany was Nazi but Austria was a hapless victim. This has ramifications today: Germany was shamed for its crimes but Austria was not, and therefore there's more extreme right and neo-Nazi activity in Austria, since many Austrians believe they were victims of Nazis rather than Nazis themselves.

3. The Soviet vs. Western Allied occupation zones in Germany were based on who could plausibly get there first. The Soviets invaded via Poland and Brandenburg, and had no reason to detour via Bavaria; the Western Allies invaded via France.
 
Probably not. Explanations:

1. While Bavaria has a strong regional identity, it did not have a significant separatist movement in the 1940s. The Allies specifically discounted breaking Germany into multiple countries, on the grounds that there weren't strong enough separatist feelings for such a split to be stable. (In contrast, a defeated Nazi super-Belgium would've been split into Wallonia and Flanders.)

Still, Germany did end up becoming divided (even if you do not count Austria). The division was not made because of identity, but purely on grounds of power politics. The argument that this division is less plausible because the Russians came first to Eastern Germany, not the west or south, is fair enough, but this scenario does not imply that Bavaria splits of because of identity. Still, if it had been part of a Soviet-dominated state for, let us say 40 years, it would probably be less likely that Bavaria would be reunited with Germany than what was the case with OTL East Germany.
 
the Morgenthau Plan

Envision two Germanys. North and South agriculture States
While Industrial area of Rhein Ruhr are put under Protectorate of International Authority for the Ruhr or U.N.
Part of west border Germany are integrated into Belgium, Luxemburg and Netherlands. means there Border move eastwards
Saarland is French Protectorate with option to become a french province later
everything east of river the Oder–Neisse goes to Poland.
Austria and Hungarian had to form a confederation
 
Still, Germany did end up becoming divided (even if you do not count Austria). The division was not made because of identity, but purely on grounds of power politics.

Indeed, and the division into two separate states was not intended in 1945. Initially it was supposed to be one state, four occupation zones. I bring up Bavaria's lack of secessionism to argue that it would be implausible to divide Germany in any way except "who got there first," which would always leave Bavaria on the Western side.
 
the Morgenthau Plan

Envision two Germanys. North and South agriculture States
While Industrial area of Rhein Ruhr are put under Protectorate of International Authority for the Ruhr or U.N.
Part of west border Germany are integrated into Belgium, Luxemburg and Netherlands. means there Border move eastwards
Saarland is French Protectorate with option to become a french province later
everything east of river the Oder–Neisse goes to Poland.
Austria and Hungarian had to form a confederation

How many different proposals were there for Germany? I have heard about the Morgenthau and Roosevelt plan, what about others?
 
Top