Alternate National Symbols

Well observed, however Hengist & Horsa were Jutes (a non-horse culture) as was the Kingdom of Kent (maybe they were actually a raggle-taggle of several German tribes). The United Saxons used the White Dragon as their symbol. ( Fighting the Welsh- White Dragon Vs. Red Dragon).
But the link of the White Horses of, Saxony and Spain deserves some study. It seems that the White Horse appears all over the place--Hindu, Persian, Greek mythology, even in non-Horsey cultures like Vietnam and Korea. In Britain there is the Uffington White Horse--at least 3000 years old. Perhaps it goes back to the ancient Indo-European Horse society.

I recall the Jutes of Kent as having spent some time with the Franks (instead of heading east like the Angles) so the Cantwarians were probably a mix of Jutes, Angles, Frisians, and the odd Frank.

The Dragon symbol (originally a Wyvern) predates the arrival of the Germanic tribes into Britain. There's some evidence it was brought over by the Sarmatians. Note how it was the westernmost group that adopted it - probably as a means of legitimising their control of the Old Welsh / British lands with less Germanic immigrants.

Is that the Lorca play or is there a new reality TV show?
Yes, Fredrico Garcia Lorca. We're using the Tanya Roder version of the play as it translates better.
 
Birds tend to get associated with the divine - particularly as messengers - because they fly in the heavens. Notice how bats get seen as demonic as they fly in the dark.

Predators such as hawks and eagles are seen as powerful so rulers will tend to adopt them to show/persuade others that they are powerful too.
Animals such as lions will also get adopted as royal icons due to their image as powerful hunters. Wolves tend not to because not only is the dominant animal difficult to spot - it's rather easy to see a maned lion as being in charge - but because for much of history they were our main rivals for meat.

Basically animals get adopted as symbols based on their perceived attributes: dogs for loyalty, bears for brute solitary power, griffins for their combination of lion & eagleness, stags for their independent majesty.

I'm guessing that Scotland has a unicorn because it's seen as a domesticated stag i.e showing that the bearer has power over the wilderness.

If you come to pondering the suitability and prevalence of different symbols there is a question I find very intriguing:

How come there are so many lions in European coats of arms, while the real ones in Africa became more and more extinct?

I wonder how many nobles have borne the symbol, or even the sobriquet "Lion", without ever having seen one ...

The sources of lion symbolism are clear:

1. The Bible,
2. the Romans,
3. to a lesser degree: the Islamic neighbors of Europe.

All three again depend on the same oriental, or oriental-hellenistic tradition.
Sometimes I find myself idly wondering how this system can be broken, as to use more indigenous animals in Europe, or use a completely different oriental animal (snake?).


Hope that wasn't all too lectury :D

I first read "lettucy" --- we weren't discussing lilies and roses in coats of arms, were we? ;)
 
If you come to pondering the suitability and prevalence of different symbols there is a question I find very intriguing:

How come there are so many lions in European coats of arms, while the real ones in Africa became more and more extinct?

I wonder how many nobles have borne the symbol, or even the sobriquet "Lion", without ever having seen one ...

The sources of lion symbolism are clear:

1. The Bible,
2. the Romans,
3. to a lesser degree: the Islamic neighbors of Europe.

All three again depend on the same oriental, or oriental-hellenistic tradition.
Sometimes I find myself idly wondering how this system can be broken, as to use more indigenous animals in Europe, or use a completely different oriental animal (snake?).

Intriguing question. It probably highlights how symbols get disconnected from their roots.
But there were lions in Europe until quite recently (within the last 2000 years). They all got hunted out by the Romans - there's irony for you :D


I first read "lettucy" --- we weren't discussing lilies and roses in coats of arms, were we? ;)

What does lettucy mean? I thought I was quite clued up with most heraldic terms :eek: (and no one say "like a lettuce" ok?)
 
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