Alternate Latin America

How do we get the Spanish Latin Ameica that in 2019 and beyond, stays united and keep all the territory as shown in the map?
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You would have to somehow weaken the United States or otherwise keep them from seizing half of Mexico for starters.

Also is the premise of this thread simply about keeping the borders of Latin American countries looking like that map, or having all this territory united into one nation? You weren't clear enough.
 

Lusitania

Donor
Brazil never belonged to Spain so therefore does not fit into your scenario.

As for a United Spain speaking America you are dealing with very difficult circumstances that have a POD from the first settlements and colonies in the Americas. Unlike the British 13 colonies which were concentrated along the Atlantic Coast you have Spanish colonies stretching over thousands and thousands of kilometers. These vastly different and distant domains were ruled by Vice-Rei who were all equal and each one reported to Madrid directly. The collapse of Spain economically and subsequent occupation of Spain by Napoleon left these Vice-Rei free start desiring their own country.

The Portuguese only had one Vice-Rei for all its capitancies/provinces and the principal reason Brazil stayed united was the move of Portuguese king to Rio when French invaded.

So for the Spanish to have any hope of maintaining their Spanish speaking colonies united would of been for Spanish king to escape to New Spain and establish Vera Cruz it other city as the center and capital of Spain. All other Vice-rei would be subject to it.

It would also require military might and luck to keep the whole thing together and to keep US at bay you would of needed Texas and rest of northern new Spain to be filled with Spanish and no room for the American settlers this pushing them to the north.

With a larger population you have a chance of defeating the US.
 
How do we get the Spanish Latin Ameica that in 2019 and beyond, stays united and keep all the territory as shown in the map?
Impossible, the hate against spain was hella high and when nappy I trashed spain and the king and nobles refused to budge was already done, so very hard to almost ASB, spain just got lucky OTL.
 

Lusitania

Donor
Impossible, the hate against spain was hella high and when nappy I trashed spain and the king and nobles refused to budge was already done, so very hard to almost ASB, spain just got lucky OTL.
Yes that is true the Spanish were the overlords and treated the colonials with disdain. To have any chance the Spanish court, Nobles and other Spanish citizens would of needed join the king and migrate to Spanish America. If the migration was to of continued during the Iberian war and strengthened the various colonies you might of had a chance but it would of required a major shift in attitudes on both sides.
 
Yes that is true the Spanish were the overlords and treated the colonials with disdain. To have any chance the Spanish court, Nobles and other Spanish citizens would of needed join the king and migrate to Spanish America. If the migration was to of continued during the Iberian war and strengthened the various colonies you might of had a chance but it would of required a major shift in attitudes on both sides.
Portugal only pulled with luck and that because 1. Portugal did have more slavery based economy, the whites both poors and rich did were at least united, 2) Portugal was more trade and maritimal based meaning needed more collaboration and 3. Braganzas were far more competent and better person bourbons ever where

Sorry that is cliche and i don't see spain pulling a braganza at all, plus the best could be they keep Peru and Maybe...New Spain, the rest was more domestic and already bore little love and a lot of hate to spain..add argentina too, as was more settler but more white based they might want a foreing king to keep indian population at bay
 

Lusitania

Donor
Portugal only pulled with luck and that because 1. Portugal did have more slavery based economy, the whites both poors and rich did were at least united, 2) Portugal was more trade and maritimal based meaning needed more collaboration and 3. Braganzas were far more competent and better person bourbons ever where

Sorry that is cliche and i don't see spain pulling a braganza at all, plus the best could be they keep Peru and Maybe...New Spain, the rest was more domestic and already bore little love and a lot of hate to spain..add argentina too, as was more settler but more white based they might want a foreing king to keep indian population at bay

I agree, in my rebirth TL v1 I did have Spain pull a Bragança and heavily populated the Spanish colonies with refugees and still the Spanish were only able to keep the North America portion of the empire with majority of South America becoming independent. Even then the Spanish king and court was forced to stay in Vera Cruz. So a lot of manipulation would be required and even then the distance was so huge that impossible to maintain control over all of it.
 
I agree, in my rebirth TL v1 I did have Spain pull a Bragança and heavily populated the Spanish colonies with refugees and still the Spanish were only able to keep the North America portion of the empire with majority of South America becoming independent. Even then the Spanish king and court was forced to stay in Vera Cruz. So a lot of manipulation would be required and even then the distance was so huge that impossible to maintain control over all of it.
And little late, as say, if they want..they can keep New Spain..and that is a massive If, maybe peru but those are massive and could loss them as OTL very easily.

The rest spain was as lucky as otl could be
 
Have the Viceroys be spun off as their own kingdoms that become independent in the same way that Canada and Australia did. So, essentially a Spanish version of the Commonwealth is formed. And for whatever reason, Napoleon doesn't invade Spain, so that instability doesn't occur. As for the US, have the Independence movement fail, or have the nation split apart soon after independence is achieved. That's the easiest way to keep the US out of Mexico.
 
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