Based on stimulating conversation in other threads, I've come up with a little challenge. It's no secret that I'm fervently into alternative ideologies and political parties and I wanted to see what you all could come up with, with a little twist: rather than just create a new ideology, I think it would be interesting to go a little deeper and come up with a new axis on a political spectrum outside of the primary two, with a pre-1900 POD. Obviously the golden example is (surprise, surprise) Look to the West, where the two major ideological camps, Societism and Diversitarianism, are arranged on a spectrum of less or more cultural diversity (respectively) rather than a Progressive-Conservative or Libertarian-Authoritarian axis.

To get the ball rolling here's a little something that occurred to me: in a world where Owenist utopian communities become politically active at the local level in the 1830s, some form of confederal utopian socialism could arise as a big tent social reform movement. Given that such groups tended toward an isolationist or at least rural character the socialism as practiced in the cities would hew closer to efforts focused on things like unions and city living conditions. If the USSR never comes into existence, the Red Scare is butterflied away, replaced with a low level crackdown on anarchist elements. Even if the Great Depression never happens some form of economic slowdown is inevitable. A variant of Technocracy becomes politically popular, coalitions are formed, parties shift and merge and fade away, and by the late 20th century the US is deep in a new party system, divided into two fractious coalitions at either end of a Materialist-Spiritual divide.

The rationalist pole of the spectrum is dominated by the Social Technocrats, a class collaborationist, mostly urban party focused on improving economic efficiency by balancing the demands of labor and capital. Although viewing a moderate welfare state as a long term positive investment, the So-Tecs have a troubled history of race relations, largely rooted in a backlash to workplace competition resulting from an alternate version of the Great Migration.

On the metaphysical end of the spectrum the Theodemocrats have united an extremely diverse rural coalition around the ideals of social experimentation and radical reforms to the status quo, embracing everyone from communes to compounds. In the early 20th century the current Theodem coalition united in a push for federal Prohibition. The failure of that movement, coupled with a perceived general Federal disinterest in promoting so called "moral reforms" cemented a collection of groups that under other circumstances would be violently opposed to each other, especially in the wake of the influx of New Age and fundamentalist beliefs. Officially organized on a deist platform the Theodemocrats believe in some form of transmundane existence but do not take a unified position on the nature of that existence.

So there you have it! Any solid ideas would be welcome, and I hope for a robust discussion.
 
I'll give it one more go and if it sinks again after that so be it. This is an idea for a system that would rise in the West and revolve around the pace of political reform, and occurred to me while I was reading through The Unreformed Kingdom.

In a scenario where Napoleon's coup never succeeds but the worst excesses of the French revolution still eventually whither away and a more successful variant of the Chartist movement takes hold in the British Isles, it could set the stage for a slightly more successful version of the Revolutions of 1848. Most TTLs about 1848 reimagine it as a wave of success but some middling result is more likely. Some countries crack down, some have total revolutions in the French model, and some follow a slower pace of Chartist systematic reforms.

If such an arrangement persisted through the rest of the nineteenth century and beyond you could see political analysis revolve around pacing. In the gradualist camp you could have Russia as the extreme example, only reforming in the face of overwhelming public discontent. A France that remained revolutionary would likely anchor a radical position on the spectrum, with British style chartism serving as a moderate middle ground. I think a US that remains weirdly elitist and retains its early antidemocratic character (as seen in Kingdom) would be amusing, occupying a strange middle ground where the several states could be gradualist or radical as the federal government basically remains static.

This state of affairs is contextual because it does not judge social changes, merely how fast they occur. The second Russia or some other reactionary gradualist nation fall to a fascism analogue they become the radical camp as the former revolutionaries and reformers try to limit or modulate this new ideological influence. It's majoritarian in the sense that whatever the sweeping social change is becomes the new benchmark of radicalism.
 
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So, basically, this is a place to discuss alternate political ideologies?
Sort of. There's threads here and there for that, but most of those tend to fall on the left/right authoritarian/libertarian scale. I was curious what other core dividing principle could rise up as an alternative to "social policy" and "personal autonomy" (ie. "positivism" and "contextualism" in my two examples). They're both so entrenched in political science it can be hard to think outside the box as it were but if you can pull it off the results are fascinating.
 
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Sort of. There's threads here and there for that, but most of those tend to fall on the left/right authoritarian/libertarian scale. I was curious what other core dividing principle could rise up as an alternative to "social policy" and "personal autonomy" (ie. "positivism" and "contextualism" in my two examples). They're both so entrenched in political science it can be hard to think outside the box as it were but if you can pull it off the results are fascinating.
One example from literature: Brave New World. The major conflict of the novel is the struggle of John the Savage to adapt to modern society because his worldview is recognizable to us where as the World State explicitly operates on an alien moral framework valuing "happiness" rather than "morality". In the context of this thread, for example, an unusually successful splinter of the Decadence movement could lead to a society embracing the pleasure principle as the highest good. Technological progress would lead to improved implementation of this ideal, eventually creating a World State in miniature.
 
I've got a response (and several likes!), so here's something that occurred to me while I probably should have been focused on working. Based on a lottocracy idea that shows up in a couple of threads I've come up with a twist on a scale with populism at one end and elitism on the other that could apply in a couple of different POD. Because lottocracy (government by people randomly selected from the population) either relies on a large population of irredeemable gamblers or a well entrenched belief in a divine or universal plan, I think this system would be most likely as a result of a religious movement.

As an example, in a scenario where the Indian Rebellion succeeds but the resulting government is hampered by cronyism and corruption an earlier form of Hindutva rises in conjunction with roiling populist sentiment, resulting in a radical government taking hold in a state or major city and expanding from there throughout the subcontinent. Originally relying on a standard lottocracy where members of the eligible population are uplifted into a joint legislative/executive organ of government in the belief that "with good karma the people can manage their affairs best", several flaws develop in the system.
  1. Because the average person can not withstand the loss of income from a term in government the system becomes vulnerable to moneyed outside influences.
  2. The intense Hindu character of the movement produces a backlash among religious minorities, creating a potential danger when they are elevated to government.
Rather than scrap the entire system (and impugn the ability of the people to govern in the process) a series of reforms are enacted. The nationalization of certain industries allows for the creation of a stipend to support members of government, while improved education the creation of an appointed bureaucracy allows for the management of these industries along with the creation of what amounts to a blind trust to manage the affairs of citizen electors during their time in government. An explicitly Hindu focus on karma is modified with agnostic positions meant to enfranchise pious religious minorities of all stripes, creating what amounts to a non-denominational theocracy governed at the highest level by random chance.

When a decolonization wave eventually sets in the marked lack of graft and ethnoreligious tension in the Indian System leads to its adoption by other emerging states, resulting in a global ideological divide between a "genuinely" populist India and friends on one side and more familiar states governed by elections and such on the other, decried as "the playground of an elitist military-industrial-financial complex" from the bar stools and speaker's podiums (much the same thing really) from Indochina to Azania. The few totalitarian states would mark an extreme on the elitist end of the spectrum, while radicals in the Indian camp believe that education has improved so drastically the government by lot should be expanded to the civil service.
 
Here's a chart from another thread that fits with my general intention for this thread. Imagine the sorts of alternate histories that could spring up if one of the more unusual metrics on the chart became THE defining issue for people to contest control of government over.

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To be quite fair, a lot of the political spectrum is based not just on cultural developments, but genuine economic developments. There's very much a material component to our political spectrums and unless we somehow butterfly out things like industrialization, it's hard for me to imagine a completely alien ideology. That being said, I don't think it was a given that say, the 20th century would always have a cold war between Market Liberalism and Marxism-Leninism.
 
To be quite fair, a lot of the political spectrum is based not just on cultural developments, but genuine economic developments. There's very much a material component to our political spectrums and unless we somehow butterfly out things like industrialization, it's hard for me to imagine a completely alien ideology. That being said, I don't think it was a given that say, the 20th century would always have a cold war between Market Liberalism and Marxism-Leninism.
Of course economic factors will always have a major formative influence on ideology, I just think people take for granted how social and personal factors map out in an ideological context. Outside of a purely pragmatic foreign policy nations tend to form alliances with others on the same social pole. Operating on a left-right dichotomy a US Cold War policy of supporting right-wing strongmen against the Soviet sphere of influence makes sense, whereas making decisions based on a personal liberty axis could have seen the US shift support to populist revolts rather than elements seeking to preserve the status quo, to give an OTL example.
 
I wrote an essay on the 1848 revolutions based Prince Felix of Schwarzenberg. - https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...llion-reich-or-the-schwarzenberg-plan.467978/

It would be very interesting to see how this fits into my scenario. Interesting... but very complicated.:confounded: I'm not sure I understand or if I do, it's going to take me a while.
I just read through it, it seemed very interesting! It's clear to me that any Greater Austria as you describe would begin on the conventional left/right authoritarian/libertarian spectrum, but whether it remains that way is an open question. If we look at the initial results of your POD, you end up with a densely populated strategically located multiethnic state. The easiest way to evolve an unorthodox hypothetical future spectrum is to replace one or both of the conventional measures with another (the above chart gives a handy shorthand list).

For example, given the diverse subject peoples (with likely further expansion in the future), "degree of moral relativism" could be a naturally occurring social divide, with a hardline Germanization faction on the "one supreme law" end and a fractious swarm of ethnic parties all working together to celebrate cultural differences within the state at the looser end of the scale. Class divides within Greater Austria could create serious barriers to social advancement, which could only get worse as the nation industrializes. If upper-class fears of the teeming working class manifest as a reactionary ossification of "proper" social mores the lower classes would grow to feel locked out of what is pushed as the "true" culture of Greater Austria, creating a second spectrum based on social formality (as an in-group, out-group exclusionary measure).

These are just two possible examples, but taken together could result in a political system where the conservative position is divided between high culture and mass culture Germanophiles while the liberal position is mainly concentrated in the above mentioned cultural diversity crowd, with a noticeable vocal intellectual contingent urging them to "stop being so stereotypical, guys" and demonstrate their value through becoming proud but cultured and refined model minorities and producing high art.
 
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