Alternate German Naval Aviation

Assuming a generally similar path of military and technological development, what could German naval aviation look like should they find themselves with an aircraft carrier or two come the 1930s-1940s?

A related question, could Fi-103 rockets be launched from warships at sea? Not at enemy warships, but as a long distance shore bombardment.

Working on a Central Powers victory TL where Germany, Great Britain, and Japan all end up squaring off against the US in the mid-40s. Naval action is pretty important.
 
Assuming a generally similar path of military and technological development, what could German naval aviation look like should they find themselves with an aircraft carrier or two come the 1930s-1940s?

A related question, could Fi-103 rockets be launched from warships at sea? Not at enemy warships, but as a long distance shore bombardment.

Working on a Central Powers victory TL where Germany, Great Britain, and Japan all end up squaring off against the US in the mid-40s. Naval action is pretty important.

Depends. What are the geostrategic circumstances for Germany during the 20s and 30s?
 
Depends. What are the geostrategic circumstances for Germany during the 20s and 30s?
Still has all of its colonies and some French ones, interested in Pacific expansion in concert with the Japanese. All of Europe save modern Russia has been brought to heel, even France. France is an ally, all of the gains from the Russian Empire are satellites, as are the states that were once the Austro-Hungarian Empire. And the Ottomans are pretty much glued to Germany in exchange for guns to keep their revolts down.

So there is definitely a need for a fleet to show the flag. Even Hawaii is not out of the question, perhaps someday it will be a Japanese outpost.

Edit: And a substantial interest in South America. Grooming Colombia, Argentina, and Cuba to provide basing in a possible war with the US.
 
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Still has all of its colonies and some French ones, interested in Pacific expansion in concert with the Japanese. All of Europe save modern Russia has been brought to heel, even France. France is an ally, all of the gains from the Russian Empire are satellites, as are the states that were once the Austro-Hungarian Empire. And the Ottomans are pretty much glued to Germany in exchange for guns to keep their revolts down.

So there is definitely a need for a fleet to show the flag. Even Hawaii is not out of the question, perhaps someday it will be a Japanese outpost.

Edit: And a substantial interest in South America. Grooming Colombia, Argentina, and Cuba to provide basing in a possible war with the US.

How were/are relations with Britain?
 
A related question, could Fi-103 rockets be launched from warships at sea? Not at enemy warships, but as a long distance shore bombardment.

Yes.
launch%20pic.jpg
USS Cusk in 1947 with the Ford built JB-2 Loon Missile, an improved V-1 with command guidance

USN also had plans to equip escort carriers with Loon batteries, the the Atomic Bombings put an end to that plan for 1946
 
Oh my. That is really something.

How quickly would it be reasonable for a much better off Germany to start putting fighter jets, rockets, and radio guidance into service? A Germany that doesn't suffer under Nazism, has the British as an ally, and has a powerful economy.
 
First, they need a new fast battleship class(es) as the surface centerpiece. Should be 16 inch armed and likely has all-or-nothing, oil fired. Next, a heavy cruiser class to assume the scouting role, likely around 12 to 15k, 8 to 10 inch gunnery, speed over protection but with good range, likely a COSA(O)D. It also can patrol or lead task units afar. Likely an AAA variant as escort. A bigger more sea worthy DD class to escort and be maids of all work.

Carriers are the new battlecruisers so armoured and well gunned, think the British AFD design and theory. Fighter defense is still mostly useless so scouting, torpedo and dive bombers are majority of the smallish wing. This is the bushwacking knife fighter to find, pin, harass the main fleet who slugs it out.

I suspect a fighter that can scout and maybe level attack. In future become more important as fighters get better at defending the fleet, now mostly an escort. A torpedo bomber that is a low level scout and can bomb, especially smaller craft or surfaced subs. A dive bomber that does high level scouting and might merge with the TBR airframe in future.

More land based air and with overseas bases the option to employ LR bombers to scout and harass.

Submarines are fleet scouts and mobile minefields that can soften the enemy or channel them to the big show. So bigger, longer ranged, optimized for surface cruise and loiter, quick dive, attack, scurry away.

Still too little attention paid to mine warfare. A better train but likely more basing and less afloat.
 

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Oh my. That is really something.

How quickly would it be reasonable for a much better off Germany to start putting fighter jets, rockets, and radio guidance into service? A Germany that doesn't suffer under Nazism, has the British as an ally, and has a powerful economy.
A non-Nazi Germany without having exiled it's liberal and Jewish scientists plus had access to the global market with British help and better systemic organization without the kleptocratic Nazis in charge would have been a powerhouse. In the 1920s they were already dominating the Nobel Prize awards and science journals, though likely that would slow down somewhat due to the demographic problems from WW1 limiting the talent pool that should have been aging in to the science/engineering world in the 1920s and beyond. Of course in an early enough CP victory scenario that won't be nearly as bad and without Versailles the economy won't be hurting either. The only problem is the Kaiser is still in charge and there won't be the governmental reforms that happened IOTL in the 1920s once the political situation calmed down.
 
First, they need a new fast battleship class(es) as the surface centerpiece. Should be 16 inch armed and likely has all-or-nothing, oil fired.

Can't get though the Kiel Canal. All-or-nothing is very much not a given. The North Sea weather conditions increase the chances of close range muggings with lots of secondary weapon fire and flat shell trajectories. Not ideal for AoN.

Geography puts Germany in an interesting bind as far as naval power is concerned. They are at a point where bigger battleships are not the answer.
 
Can't get though the Kiel Canal. All-or-nothing is very much not a given. The North Sea weather conditions increase the chances of close range muggings with lots of secondary weapon fire and flat shell trajectories. Not ideal for AoN.

Geography puts Germany in an interesting bind as far as naval power is concerned. They are at a point where bigger battleships are not the answer.

I believe here the German fleet has overcome the bounds and gone blue water. Bismarck is about as big as they can go before expensive infrastructure upgrades and even then I think there are limits. AoN is about the best compromise for speed, size, armor and armament. Germany favors protection then punch then speed. Carriers will be edging up as the torpedo and bomb become threat number 1. But if we return to her usual enemies in Europe, I think we might build something different.
 
The North Sea weather conditions increase the chances of close range muggings with lots of secondary weapon fire and flat shell trajectories. Not ideal for AoN.
Worked as planned with South Dakota
0ab57cd9d47b0fd05b4d265e508bdca3.jpg

Range down to under 6000 yards, hit 26 times
(1)5-inch
(6)6-inch
(18)8-inch
(1)14-inch

Now that's Tsushima kind of range, and kind of hits that sank Russian Predreds
 
And Bismark wore 300 shells and didn't sink. Big ships take big damage.

I am not arguing that AoN isn't an efficient use of mass. But both armor schemes are tools for specific purposes. And the Germans designers of the 30s saw benefits to graduated armor beyond a simple Baden rehash. Given the design team is likely to have similar requirements in mind as OTL it is likely they will go the same direction.
 
Get them their proposed WW1 carrier the Ausonia. That will give them a foundation to build on . It looks like Zeppelins were favoured over aircraft so that's why Naval Aviation was neglected in WW1
 
Would it be possibly to deploy a radar-guided anti-ship Fi-103 from cruisers or battleships, or is that bomb not suited to the task? What time might be reasonable for such a weapon or its ilk, given a non-Nazi, economically successful Germany?
 
Would it be possibly to deploy a radar-guided anti-ship Fi-103 from cruisers or battleships, or is that bomb not suited to the task? What time might be reasonable for such a weapon or its ilk, given a non-Nazi, economically successful Germany?
vibration from the pulsejet ruled out most electronic systems in the V-1 until the US made improvements to the V-1 in the Ford made Loon, thanks to the US advantage in tubes that could survive the shock of being fired from cannons from the VT fuze program.
 
vibration from the pulsejet ruled out most electronic systems in the V-1 until the US made improvements to the V-1 in the Ford made Loon, thanks to the US advantage in tubes that could survive the shock of being fired from cannons from the VT fuze program.
I mean, a Germany that was in a position to attempt this would probably also come to that result. Especially given their alliance with Britain and Japan, particularly advanced in radar technology.

But removing the pulsejet, a guided bomb, aircraft deployed, wouldn't be unfeasible?
 
I mean, a Germany that was in a position to attempt this would probably also come to that result. Especially given their alliance with Britain and Japan, particularly advanced in radar technology.

But removing the pulsejet, a guided bomb, aircraft deployed, wouldn't be unfeasible?

Given that the Germans built a couple of guided bombs, including a rocket-assisted one, and they worked OK by 1943, presumably not. But they were expensive items and operating them took serious skill - Wikipedia can literally count every combat hit ever scored with the Hs-293. Then again, anything that gets 1000lb of rocket-assisted AP bomb in its innards won't look too happy afterwards.
 
Still has all of its colonies and some French ones, interested in Pacific expansion in concert with the Japanese. All of Europe save modern Russia has been brought to heel, even France. France is an ally, all of the gains from the Russian Empire are satellites, as are the states that were once the Austro-Hungarian Empire. And the Ottomans are pretty much glued to Germany in exchange for guns to keep their revolts down.

So there is definitely a need for a fleet to show the flag. Even Hawaii is not out of the question, perhaps someday it will be a Japanese outpost.

Edit: And a substantial interest in South America. Grooming Colombia, Argentina, and Cuba to provide basing in a possible war with the US.

Hawaii is pretty much completely out of the question. It's at the ass end of any hypothetical Japanese supply lines and might as well be on Jupiter for German supply lines. It's worth is also pretty minuscule for either power since it requires a war what would inevitably be a massive war with the US. Though the second the Germans start trying that shit in Latin America say hello to Proto Cold War.
 
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